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Can Muslims co-exist with rest of the world

   Following the Civil War, citizens of South Carolina were required to swear allegiance to restore citizenship. Also, not long ago, the Communist Party, a humanistic form of religion and international politics, was outlawed in America; there are parallels between communism and the stated intentions of worldwide Islam.
   Western Europe has no experience with immigration, and for years has had open borders to Muslim emigrants with a birth rate of 3.4 per female, compared to a European rate of about 1.4 per female. The U.S. rate is about 2.1. According to columnist Mark Steyn, “A people that won’t multiply can’t go forth or go anywhere. Those who do, will shape the age we live in.” The West is being consumed by a culture that will not, and perhaps cannot, be assimilated. The Koran may not permit integration. American has had horrific experience with black segregation; but Islamic segregation is self-imposed.
   Islam requires a marriage of “church and state.” Believers adhere to every aspect of life and death through the Koran and Hadith, from which Sharia law is derived. Sharia law is the constitution of Islam. The U.S. Constitution is the basis for American law, and American life and liberty. No one would disagree that “no man can serve two masters”; obviously, there is a conflict between Sharia law and American, Dutch, English or any Western law concept. Muslims tend to be devout, at least compared to Christians. There are about 6 billion souls on the earth, of which 1.2 billion are Muslim. Considering Muslim demographics, the conflict between East and West is coming to a head — perhaps at Armageddon.
   Is Islam inherently a threat to Western security, and is it possible for the subject to be debated, or is it too politically incorrect? Can Islam be reformed to become a religion of peace, as some interpret the Koran, and still be Islam, as described by the Koran? Does Islam require a Muslim to embrace Sharia law? Are American-Muslims loyal citizens considering Sharia law? Does America have the will to survive under the Constitution of Madison, or is the alternative already certain?
   ALBERT J. KAUSCH
   Scotia  

  
  
  

The world and all the countries and cultures just need to make anything remotely resembling a religion or God, a nothing.......but, we would always come back to the question "What is the wisdom, rationale, foundation for anything we make as a 'civilized society'?"

Shariha Law is very moral. Most believe that it is the law that will keep society civil. The true Shariha believers, also believe that when Jesus returns He will set up His kingdom on earth with Shariha law. There are also some who believe Shariha law may be somewhat extreme, but feels it is necessary for a civil society. This link explains Shariha Law:
http://www.americanthinker.com/2005/08/top_ten_reasons_why_sharia_is.html

Mohommid Ali seemed to do ok.  Cat Stevens too-

Every religion believes passionatly that their's is the one and only true religion. I personally have no problem with that. I do have a problem with religions who teach and practice violence to control a society. And I believe that is what the Muslim religion teaches.  

Quoted from JoAnn

Every religion believes passionatly that their's is the one and only true religion. I personally have no problem with that. I do have a problem with religions who teach and practice violence to control a society. And I believe that is what the Muslim religion teaches.  

Remember what Mohammid Ali went to jail for ?  

YUP! And remember that he converted to the Islam religion. And Mohommed Ali was not his birth name either. And his conversion was by choice.

I disagree with forced conversion with any religion.

Quoted from JoAnn

YUP! And remember that he converted to the Islam religion. And Mohommed Ali was not his birth name either. And his conversion was by choice.

I disagree with forced conversion with any religion.

He went to jail because he didnt want to kill anybody he said it was against his faith -

There were many people, back then, who went to jail for their religious convictions. It was the Viet Nam era. And I really don't have the statistics to know how many Muslims actually lived in this country 40 years ago. I would guess that it was far less than there are today.

Why dont we ask the Beatles and the rest of the 'crowd' with their eastern religion 'studies'......sheeple like the 'shiny' things...

Cat Stevens is nothing more than a pot smoking, tree hugging, free lovin', if it feels good do it, left over hippie that tried every eastern religion know to man. Your basic nut case, if you will!! :o

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This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding.
The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the members of the several state legislatures, and all executive and judicial officers, both of the United States and of the several states, shall be bound by oath or affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.

Quoted from bumblethru

Cat Stevens is nothing more than a pot smoking, tree hugging, free lovin', if it feels good do it, left over hippie that tried every eastern religion know to man. Your basic nut case, if you will!! :o

My mistake- I should have left Cat Stevens out-

But Im making a point  tha Mohommad Ali as a Muslim  went to jail because he did not want to kill-

Although I have great respect for Mohammd Ali as a boxer, I find it hard to believe that in his violent profession,he didn't want to 'kill'? Perhaps he just joined the ranks back them and was just a plain old draft dodger with a different title. We'll never really know. So it is clearly speculation.

I certainly wouldn't use him as the plum line for the muslim religion.

I think Mike Tyson is Muslim now too-

Quoted from Sombody

I think Mike Tyson is Muslim now too-

YUP, he is too. Another example of conversion to Islam.

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To coexist in peace, we must overcome cultural ignorance

   I have an answer to Albert Kausch’s question Oct. 28, “Can Muslims coexist with the rest of the world?” That question might well have been posed by many groups of people in the past, substituting just about any group name for Muslims: Christians, during the Crusades; Catholics during the Inquisition; white Americans during the time of segregation. The first people were probably asking that about Europeans when they first arrived in the Americas.
   The answer relies on each one of us as individuals. People with diverse ideas, religions and cultures have been able to coexist since the beginning of time. They do it by agreeing to respect their differences. Those who insist on converting others to their own ideas exist in a state of latent war.
   Mr. Kausch seems to be making the assumption that all Muslims are trying to make the rest of the world convert to Islam. I am sure that those people exist, just as I am sure that there are Christians who would like to convert everyone to Christianity, but none of the Muslims I have met think like that.
   Why would anyone kill other people who don’t think like they do? Fear and ignorance. Ignorance is often a result of poverty that prevents people from becoming educated. So how can each of us help rid the world of fear and ignorance? Learn about other cultures. Get to know people with ideas that differ from your own. If you have money, give to organizations that help dispel ignorance, such as the Central Asia Institute, which helps communities build their own schools so that they don’t have to rely on radical Islamist organizations to educate their children. Help rid the world of poverty and hunger, and promote gender equity by giving time or money to organizations like Habitat for Humanity or Heifer.
   Host a foreign exchange student, or encourage your school district to support those who do. The U.S. State Department provides scholarships to students from predominantly Muslim countries so that we can get to know each other. Invite those students to speak at your place of worship or school. Read to a child and encourage him to learn about the wider world. Take the high road. Be the good guy. We can coexist.
   ROBIN SCHNELL
   Scotia
The writer is a coordinator for AFS [American Field Service] Hosting.

  
  
  

Most of the world has a live and let live attitude toward other religions but it's the Muslims who seem to attack people of differing views.

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MUSLIMS-CAN THEY WITH WITH THE REST OF US?

They have made it very clear that they not only hate us, they want to take us over and kill us! They tried on 9/11....remember? The answer is clearly NO!

And please don't ask me to be tolerant of cultures that hate me and want to kill and destroy not only myself but my country. Amusing that WE are to be the tolerant ones when the muslims clearly do not want to tolerate US! So NO, they can't and won't live  with us or like us and NO, we can't and won't live with them or like them. They drew the line in the sand....we didn't! It was the muslims who made us choose sides!

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Letter about Muslims exposed writer’s bigotry

   Re Oct. 28 letter by Albert J. Kausch, “Can Muslims co-exist with rest of the world”: I think Mr. Kausch should take a good look at history.
   Christians seem to have the most problem with coexistence with the rest of the world. Adolf Hitler considered himself a Christian and so did the Kaiser. Let’s not forget the Crusades or the KKK. Genocidal regimes have often considered themselves Christian as well. There are Jews in Israel who believe that the Palestinians should be eliminated.
   I find Mr. Kausch’s statements to be bigoted and one-sided. Many of my neighbors are Muslim and proud Americans. Some of them are fighting in Iraq.
   Mr. Kausch needs to leave his bigotry at home and not espouse his stupidity in the newspapers.
   PAMELA HILDRETH
   Schenectady  

  
  
  

No different than the Roman Catholic church taking to heart the "...be fruitful and multiply" to heart.....and why they dont believe in contraceptive....

a very popular belief is...to keep peace, make more people like yourself.......just procreate untill there are more of 'you' and less of 'them'.......

if you ask me, that is a warriors attitude....and I am no soldier--I have a small family......

That's why the white folk are becoming extinct!! They will soon be the minority, if not already.

Quoted from bumblethru

That's why the white folk are becoming extinct!! They will soon be the minority, if not already.

I know your kidding- but be careful- that is part of the KKK doctrine.

Quoted from senders

No different than the Roman Catholic church taking to heart the "...be fruitful and multiply" to heart.....and why they dont believe in contraceptive....

a very popular belief is...to keep peace, make more people like yourself.......just procreate untill there are more of 'you' and less of 'them'.......

if you ask me, that is a warriors attitude....and I am no soldier--I have a small family......

This is the quote I was referring to. And my answer was from government statistics. We are taling pro-creation here, hardly KKK!!!

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There are Jews in Israel who believe that the Palestinians should be eliminated.

  

But the leaders of Israel don't want Palestinians eliminated, unlike the leaders of Palestine, who don't even recongnize Israel as a nation.  Ahmadinejad(muslim), the leader of Iran actually gave speeches vowing to exterminate all the Jews.  Slight difference.

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Let’s not forget the Crusades or the KKK.

The Crusades were prior to the Reformation of the Catholic Church, I do believe the Muslim need to go through their own reformantion. I don't think you can compare a fringe group like the KKK, to nations like Iran and Sirya who indoctrinate their youth to hate Jews and Christians. They build their army's to someday wipe out Jews and Christians.

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Hitler considered himself a Christian and so did the Kaiser.

Hitler was raised Catholic, but in many speeches Hitler proclaimed his athiest view.  In one speech in particular he was even quoted saying "We do not want any other God than Germany itself."

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Mr. Kausch needs to leave his bigotry at home and not espouse his stupidity in the newspapers.

That's a nice open minded statement from Pamela.  I can't believe that the Gazette would print such crap from such an idiot.  Brad, good luck getting your letters to the editor published.  Brad's letters might be a little to sophisticated for the Gazette to publish.  

Pamela must be a Schenectady High grad.

I think Ali and Tyson are poor examples of Islam.  If they are what Islam is all about I don't think the religion can acclimate to our way of life.  Ali was a draft dodger and Tyson a rapist.  Poster boys for Islam? Keep it away from me.  It seems often in religion the depth of ones faith is measured by the current events and surroundings.  Ali, didn't want to kill, turn to Islam then pummel the brains out of his opponents for years to come.  Tyson, same thing, only with a twist of arrogance.

I think the root cause of the debate is fear.  I know I am afraid, look at the atrocities comitted around the world in the name of Islam.  My husband was a Marine at Camp Lajeune during the Iran Hostage Crisis in the late 70's.  Ever since then these people have been allowed to continue their systematic disposal of Christians, Americans, and non believers ever since.  The final straw was 9/11, for twenty minutes, but many have even pushed that horror or atrocity to the back of their mind.  Now we are back to being more concerned about hurting feelings and being politically correct then we are in defending our very way of life that these extremeists want to take from us.  I am VERY afraid that we as a nation don't have the backbone to keep our country.  I know there are many Islamic people who are good, hardworking, honorable people.  They aren't the ones I'm afraid of, but how do I tell the difference?

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Don’t call names, just get the facts right

   Pamela Hildreth’s Nov. 10 letter is the classic “if you don’t have a good argument, call your opponent names.”
   I refer to the original letter by Albert Kausch [Oct. 28], “Can Muslims co-exist with the rest of the world?” Ms. Hildreth claims that Christians “seem to have the most problem with coexistence with the rest of the world.” Is Ms. Hildreth blind to current events? She has to cite the Crusades, Adolph Hitler and the KKK as examples of Christians “behaving badly.” Those examples have nothing to do with today’s modern-day radical Islamic Jihadist — who want to, by force, convert the rest of us to their religious ideology.
   The Crusades, which began nearly 1,000 years ago and lasted for two centuries, was the Christian response to the Muslim Turks’ capture of Jerusalem and the slaughter of 3,000 Christians. It was a religious war fought by two opposing religious ideologies. Hitler, on the other hand, was a fascist. His rampage through Europe, and the extermination of the Jews, were for political, social, and economic reasons — not religious reasons.
   Islamists may represent only a small fraction of the Muslim world, but they are well financed, fanatical and tolerated by even moderate Muslims. They want to destroy the United States and convert Westerners to Islam. These Islamists are the least tolerant people on earth.
   All the unrest in the world today involves radical Islam: The Philippines, India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran, Western Europe — including Great Britain. We’ve been attacked right here at home by those same people. They tolerate no one.
   Can a Christian practice his/her religion openly in Saudi Arabia? How about Iran or Pakistan? The answer is no. Can a Muslim practice his/her religion openly in the United States or Europe? The answer is a resounding yes! So who is the more tolerant?
   STEVEN ESPOSITO
   Ballston Spa

  
  
  

Excellent article Steve-o!!!

Wasn't Hitler a Catholic Jew.....I think Power/control would sum up his Dogma from his twisted mind/soul......

Quoted from senders

Wasn't Hitler a Catholic Jew.....I think Power/control would sum up his Dogma from his twisted mind/soul......

The root cause of muslim hatrid that is thier view of  Israeli-Jews as Pigs or dogs and need to be killed.  We must try to understand their religion and their beliefs.  You cannot understand this hate unless you understand that the fact that Israel's existence, proves the Muslims religion to be incorrect and proves Mohammed to be a false Prophet. The Muslim's have only two choices, One; at all coast they must destroy Israel; or two; they can change there beliefs. Which do you think they will chose? And where will that choice Lead the world too?

Funny- I didnt quite get this info on TV

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Funny- I didnt quite get this info on TV

You don't have to get this from TV, you can get it from the Bible.
Abraham had a son with Sarah's maid servant. He was Ismael (the one that the Muslim religion is based).
Abraham and Sarah had a son. He was Isaac(the one that the Jewish religion is based).
The Jews believe the land of Israel was given to Isaac, so it is their entitlement.
The Muslims believe the land of Israel was given to Ismael, so it was their entitlement.
And they have been at war with each other ever since, as prophesized!

The other sickos such as Hitler were just plain evil, but not part of the original scenerio.

JoAnn-

I am posting your comment in the Schenectady forum thread Muslims-
Thank you for a resposne without  a hidden  political  agenda-

When you take it out of the religious content, it can only be political.

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And where will that choice Lead the world too?

Armagedon of course!

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Sudanese protesters demand British teacher be executed
BY MOHAMED OSMAN The Associated Press

   KHARTOUM, Sudan — Thousands of Sudanese, many armed with clubs and swords and beating drums, burned pictures of a British teacher Friday and demanded her execution for insulting Islam by letting her students name a teddy bear Muhammad.
   Sudan’s Islamic government, which has long whipped up anti-Western, Muslim hard-line sentiment at home, was balancing between fueling outrage over the case of Gillian Gibbons and containing it.
   The government does not want to seriously damage ties with Britain, but the show of anger underlines its stance that Sudanese oppose Western interference, lawyers and political foes said. The uproar comes as the U.N. is accusing Sudan of dragging its feet on the deployment of peacekeepers in the war-torn Darfur region.
   Many in the protesting crowd shouted “Kill her! Kill her by fi ring squad!”
   In response to the rally in central Khartoum, Gibbons was moved from the women’s prison across the Nile in Oumdurman to a secret location, her chief lawyer Kamal al-Gizouli told the Associated Press. He said he visited her there to discuss her conviction Thursday on charges of insulting Islam.
   The 54-year-old Gibbons, who was sentenced to 15 days in jail, spoke Friday with her son John and daughter Jessica in Britain by telephone.
   “One of the things my mum said today was that I don’t want any resentment towards Muslims,” the son told AP. “She’s holding up quite well.”
   Despite the fervor of the protest, the rest of Khartoum was quiet. The rally was far smaller than February 2006 protests held with government backing after European newspapers ran caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad, suggesting popular anger over Gibbons did not run as deep.
   In their mosque sermons Friday, several Muslim clerics harshly denounced Gibbons, saying she had intentionally insulted the prophet, but they did not call for protests and said the punishment ordered by the court was sufficient.
   Still, after prayers, several thousand people converged on Khartoum’s Martyrs Square, near the presidential palace, and began calling for Gibbons’ execution. Many seemed to be from Sufi groups, religious sects that emphasize reverence for the prophet.
   Some angrily denounced the teacher, but others smiled as they beat drums and burned newspapers with Gibbons’ picture, waving swords and clubs and green banners, the color of Islam.
   Chants of “Kill her!” and “No tolerance: Execution!” rang out as hundreds of police in riot gear stood by, keeping the crowd contained but not moving against the rally.
   Protesters dismissed Gibbons’ claims that she didn’t mean to insult the prophet.
   “It is a premeditated action, and this unbeliever thinks that she can fool us?” said Yassin Mubarak, a young dreadlocked man swathed in green and carrying a sword. “What she did requires her life to be taken.”
   Several hundred protesters marched to Unity High School, where Gibbons worked, and chanted outside briefly before heading toward the nearby British Embassy. They were stopped by security forces two blocks from the embassy. The protest dispersed after an hour.
   “I would like to tell the whole world that what happened here from this English teacher is not acceptable to us,” said a protester, Sheikh Nasser Abu Shamah.
   There was no overt sign that the government organized the protest, but such a public rally could not have taken place without at least official assent.
   Gibbons was sentenced Thursday to 15 days in jail and deportation for insulting Islam with the naming of the teddy bear, which was part of a class project for her 7-year-old students at the private school.
   She escaped harsher punishment that could have included up to 40 lashes, six months in prison and a fine. Her time in jail since her arrest Sunday counts toward the sentence.

ABD RAOUF/THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Sudanese protesters hold a newspaper carrying a photo of British teacher Gillian Gibbons during a protest in Khartoum on Friday. The protesters called for the execution of Gibbons, who was convicted of insulting Islam for letting her students name a teddy bear Muhammad.

I wonder what they think of Muhammad ali??? or the rest of the Muhammads around the world......I also knew someone named Jesus

That's what happens when we make dead people so important that it makes us blood thirsty.......God said vengence is mine......

If we have to actually defend our all powerful religion(each dogma teaches) then it is not that powerful and our faith is dirt-----GOD DOES NOT NEED DEFENDING BY US.....

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Quoted Text

British lawmakers seek teacher’s release
The Associated Press

   KHARTOUM, Sudan — Two British parliament members met officials in Sudan Saturday to try to secure the release of a British teacher imprisoned for naming a teddy bear Muhammad and later said the Khartoum government wants to resolve the case.
   Baroness Sayeeda Warsi and Lord Nazir Ahmed, both Muslim members of Parliament’s upper house, also visited the teacher Gillian Gibbons in prison for more than an hour.
   “Gillian was surprisingly in good spirits considering the last seven days,” Warsi, a Conservative, told Sky News.
   Warsi and Ahmed arrived in Sudan Saturday on what the British Foreign Office called a private visit to meet with officials and seek the early release of Gibbons.
   Concern for Gibbons’ safety was sparked Friday after thousands of Sudanese, many armed with clubs and swords and beating drums, burned pictures of her and demanded her execution during a rally in the capital Khartoum.
   “The Sudanese government [does] want to resolve this matter. [We] hope we can come to an amicable resolution soon,” Warsi said after she and Ahmed met Sudanese officials.
   “They’ve been very positive so far,” Ahmed said in an interview with the BBC. “We’ve had very frank discussions, and we are very hopeful that we’ll be meeting more ministers and officials and this will continue until such time as we can reach a satisfactory conclusion.”
   A lawyer for Gibbons said President Omar al-Bashir could inform the visiting parliamentarians that he had pardoned the teacher.
   Gibbons’ lawyer Kamal al-Gizouli said Sudan’s president could deliver news of a pardon when he meets the British visitors. But it was not immediately clear when they would meet.
   “I would not be surprised if president of the republic will tell delegation we have dropped this charge,” al-Gizouli told The Associated Press.
   Gibbons, 54, was sentenced Thursday to 15 days in jail and deportation for insulting Islam by naming a teddy bear Muhammad — the name of Islam’s prophet. The naming was part of a class project for her 7-year-old students at a private school in Sudan.  

  
  
  

Senders had a good point. What do they think of naming a 'violent' fighter Mohommad Ali? And yes there are people named Jesus too. And the Jews don't seem to have a problem naming a cake 'Jewish coffee cake'.
I wonder what the Muslims think when someone sneezes and someone else says 'God bless you'. I also wonder what they think when someone uses the Christain God's name in vain...'Jesus Christ'! In fact are they allowed to take the Christain God's name in vain in Muslim countries? Hmmmm.....

Quoted from bumblethru

Senders had a good point. What do they think of naming a 'violent' fighter Mohommad Ali? And yes there are people named Jesus too. And the Jews don't seem to have a problem naming a cake 'Jewish coffee cake'.
I wonder what the Muslims think when someone sneezes and someone else says 'God bless you'. I also wonder what they think when someone uses the Christain God's name in vain...'Jesus Christ'! In fact are they allowed to take the Christain God's name in vain in Muslim countries? Hmmmm.....

I think somewhere toward the beginning of this thread I brought up Ali-  I remember he served 3+ years in jail for refusing to fight in Viet Nam. Boxing like hockey is a sport. Agressive - or violent ?

Ive been in a taxi- especialy in DC with an Islamic driver when THEY sneeze-  Its sort of confusing-  I remember asking what if anything is proper to say- and you know to this day I cant understand what he said.
Maybe you could get in trouble for asking Allah to bless something like sneezing-  

somebody,
Is there anyplace you haven't been?

Quoted from JoAnn

somebody,
Is there anyplace you haven't been?

This past Saturday I was driving through the University of Michigan- Ann Arbor campus and just off campus there were a half dozen or so Muslims ( students I assume ) with protest signage saying " America stop funding Israel " and other things similar against Israel.
And we know thats not a good thing-

- But I was back at Holly Manor having dinner with Mom the Saturday before- no protesters over there

http://www.timesunion.com

Quoted Text

Briton pardoned in Sudan Islam insult  
  
By ALFRED de MONTESQUIOU, Associated Press
Monday, December 3, 2007

KHARTOUM, Sudan -- A British teacher jailed for insulting Islam after allowing her students to name a teddy bear Muhammad was released Monday when Sudan's president pardoned her, a British Embassy spokesman said.
    
The conviction of Gillian Gibbons under Sudan's Islamic Sharia law shocked Britons and many Muslims worldwide. It also inflamed passions among many Sudanese, some of whom called for her execution.

Gibbons escaped harsher punishment that could have included up to 40 lashes, six months in prison and a fine.

In a written statement given to President Omar al-Bashir and read by a British mediator, Gibbons said she did not intend to offend anyone and had great respect for Islam.

"She is in British Embassy custody and is with the deputy British ambassador," embassy spokesman Omar Daair said. He would not give her exact location or say when she would leave Sudan.

Gibbons, 54, was sentenced Thursday to 15 days in prison and deportation for insulting Islam because she allowed her students to name a class teddy bear Muhammad, seen as a reference to Islam's Prophet Muhammad. Her time in jail since her arrest Nov. 25 counted toward the sentence.

Al-Bashir pardoned Gibbons after two British Muslim politicians from the House of Lords met with him to plead for her release.

Lord Nazir Ahmed, who met with al-Bashir along with Baroness Sayeeda Warsi, said the case was an "unfortunate misunderstanding" and stressed that Britain respected Islam.

In the statement, released by the presidential palace and read by Warsi to reporters Monday, Gibbons said she was sorry if she caused any "distress."

"I have a great respect for the Islamic religion and would not knowingly offend anyone," Gibbons said in the statement. "I am looking forward to seeing my family and friends, but I am very sorry that I will be unable to return to Sudan."

Ghazi Saladdin, a senior presidential adviser, said al-Bashir insisted that Gibbons had a "fair trial," but he agreed to pardon her because of the efforts by the British Muslim delegation.

It was unclear when Gibbons would leave Sudan. Earlier Monday, Sudanese presidential spokesman Mahzoub Faidul told The Associated Press that Gibbons would "fly back to England today." However, travel agents in Sudan said the first European-bound flights would not leave Khartoum until early Tuesday.

During her trial, the weeping teacher said she had intended no harm.

The naming of the teddy bear was part of a class project for her 7-year-old students at the private Unity High School. She asked the students to pick names for it and they proposed Abdullah, Hassan and Muhammad, and in September, the pupils voted to name it Muhammad, he said.

Each child was allowed to take the bear home on weekends and write a diary about what they did with it. The diary entries were collected in a book with the bear's picture on the cover, labeled, "My Name is Muhammad," he said. The bear itself was never labeled with the name, he added.

Another staff member at the school complained about the bear's name, leading to Gibbons' arrest.

The case also sparked criticism from many Muslims in the West who said she should have never been arrested. On Monday, Inayat Bunglawala, a spokesman for the Muslim Council of Britain, welcomed the pardon.
"It will be wonderful to see her back in the U.K. I am sure she will be welcomed by both Muslims and non-Muslims after her quite terrible ordeal at the hands of the Sudanese authorities," Bunglawala said.

There were concerns for Gibbons' safety in Sudan after thousands of Sudanese, many armed with clubs and swords and beating drums, burned pictures of her and demanded her execution during a rally in Khartoum on Friday. She was moved from the Omdurman women's prison to a secret location after the demonstrations against her, her lawyer said.

There was no overt sign that the government organized the protest, but such a rally could not have taken place without at least official assent.

Sudan's ambassador in London, Khalid al-Mubarak, insisted Monday that the demonstrations "were an argument from the fringe."

Quoted Text

Briton pardoned in Sudan Islam insult  

Pardon me????????

How about throwing it out.....

WOW...don't ya just wish that the christains would reverence their savior just half as much as the muslims do theirs?

Quoted from bumblethru

WOW...don't ya just wish that the christains would reverence their savior just half as much as the muslims do theirs?

Yes- but understading their  paradigm is nearly impossible  for us.  For a man to see a womans hair is like seeing her naked-

Wrap your brain around that one -

I'm sure that the muslims look at catholics and try to wrap their brain around that too. There are rosary beads with repeated prayers over and over, not to mention the novenas and the gazillion saints that they pray to and the cardinals ring you kiss while making confirmation and lets not forget baptism and communion and how incredibly rich the vatican is...and so on and so on.

Quoted from bumblethru

I'm sure that the muslims look at catholics and try to wrap their brain around that too. There are rosary beads with repeated prayers over and over, not to mention the novenas and the gazillion saints that they pray to and the cardinals ring you kiss while making confirmation and lets not forget baptism and communion and how incredibly rich the vatican is...and so on and so on.

Other " Christian " religions critizise Catholic traditions.  I wouldnt confuse that with Islam- they are only and I repeat only consumed with Jews.  They dont care about 7th  Day Adventist, Mormons. Jehovh Witnesss etc.

Islam is consumed with hatred for the Jew-

Yes they are consumed with the Jews, but remember that they also expect ALL to convert to Islam or DIE!

Understood- Being the radical fundamentalist are trying to make it sooner rather than later-

I really pray for the corporate Human resourse departments that are bending over- backwards or forwards depending -

By brother cuts hair in a Salon in Eugene Or.  He recently emailed me saying he was in trouble because he accidentally walked into a back room where a Muslim woman was getting her hair cut. ( by another mulim woman - of course ) He said they absolutly freaked out and are trying to get my bro fired.

Quoted from Sombody

Understood- Being the radical fundamentalist are trying to make it sooner rather than later-

I really pray for the corporate Human resourse departments that are bending over- backwards or forwards depending -

By brother cuts hair in a Salon in Eugene Or.  He recently emailed me saying he was in trouble because he accidentally walked into a back room where a Muslim woman was getting her hair cut. ( by another mulim woman - of course ) He said they absolutly freaked out and are trying to get my bro fired.

this is what ignorance, irrational fear and customs and traditions get all bent out of shape and become a darkening force.....remember a 'RealID' could incite this same response(sci-fi thinking) in the next couple of generations.......and the 'RealID' isn't even a religion(yet)..

WOW! Firing an American born citizen because of someone else's religious belief. I'm sorry but that is absolutely nonsense. So I guess that from here on in, when someone uses the Christians Lords name in vain, FIRE HIS/HER a**!!!

And I'm assuming your brother isn't a Jew, is he? So ya see....it just don't matter much anymore! They are hell bent on making the Islam religion superior over all others!

Quoted from bumblethru

WOW! Firing an American born citizen because of someone else's religious belief. I'm sorry but that is absolutely nonsense. So I guess that from here on in, when someone uses the Christians Lords name in vain, FIRE HIS/HER a**!!!

And I'm assuming your brother isn't a Jew, is he? So ya see....it just don't matter much anymore! They are hell bent on making the Islam religion superior over all others!

Well Bumble- things have quieted down in the shop.  Its doubtful my bro will get fired but there is definite hostility in the shop among the muslim girls towards my bro.  He is not Jewish but Im sure they know he is a Christian.

I'm glad to hear that things have quieted down somewhat for your 'bro'. But is still escapes me how we, in this country must tip toe around one religious group as compared to others. Take a christian's ten commandments away, take christian prayer out of school, take 'in God we trust' off the money, no nativity scenes and so on.  But God forbid we should offend a Muslim without even knowing it! >:(

http://www.dailygazette.com

Quoted Text

Bishop decries Islamic ‘no-go areas’ in Britain
The Associated Press

    LONDON — Islamic extremism in Britain has created communities that are “no-go areas” for non-Muslims, a Pakistani-born Church of England bishop said in The Sunday Telegraph.
    Michael Nazir-Ali, the bishop of Rochester, told the newspaper that Britain’s policies of multiculturalism have created separate Muslim communities that fail to integrate into mainstream society.
    “There has been a worldwide resurgence of the ideology of Islamic extremism. One of the results of this has been to further alienate the young from the nation in which they were growing up and also to turn already separate communities into ‘no-go’ areas where adherence to this ideology has become a mark of acceptability,” said Nazir-Ali.
    “Those of a different faith or race may find it difficult to live or work there because of hostility to them,” he said.
    A British Muslim leader criticized Nazir-Ali’s comments.
    “It’s irresponsible for a man of his position to make these comments,” Imam Ibrahim Mogra of the Muslim Council of Britain said in comments published by The Sunday Telegraph. “He should accept that Britain is a multicultural society in which we are free to follow our religion at the same time as being extremely proud to be British. We wouldn’t allow ’nogo’ areas to happen.
    Nazir-Ali did not identify any such “no-go areas” in Britain, a predominantly Christian country with a Muslim population of about 1.6 million, many of whom live in northern England.

God I wish I could pronounce their names!

The goal of Muslims is to convert ALL to their religious belief. It has gone beyond being all about the Jews. Just look at Dufar. That is the Arab Muslims slaughtering the black Christians. Clearly that conflict has nothing to do with the Jewish people.

It is easy to 'control' the masses via religion based on some hideous afterlife effect.....fear goes a long way......shame on them and shame on anyother religion that uses these tactics....self inspection/discipline are one thing, but self judgement/conviction are another......

Quoted from JoAnn

There were many people, back then, who went to jail for their religious convictions. It was the Viet Nam era. And I really don't have the statistics to know how many Muslims actually lived in this country 40 years ago. I would guess that it was far less than there are today.

I have posted elseware that CURRENTLY the city of Dearborn Michigan and Detroit Metro are home to about 500,000 Muslimz - a half million- the largest population outside the Middle East-

I did read that post you mention. But how many muslims lived in this country 30-40 years ago? I don't know if we can or where we could get those stats.

Quoted from Sombody

I have posted elseware that the city of Dearborn Michigan and Detroit Metro are home to about 500,000 Muslimz - a half million- the largest population outside the Middle East- this is a current statistic 2008

alot of folks that I work with in healthcare are muslim and travel to Michigan for family reunions, weddings and such......

http://www.washingtonpost.com


http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.asp?ai=214&ar=1050wmv&ak=
(the video takes a minute to load)

Quoted Text

The following is my transcript of English sub-titles taken from an original Arab language broadcast on Al Jazeera Qatar TV Feb.21, 2006 that someone posted on the Web for the world to see.
It is the translation of a partial TV interview with
Arab-American Psychologist Wafa Sultan.


Transcript:
Wafa: The clash we are witnessing around the world is not a clash of religions or of civilizations.
     It’s a clash between two opposites two, eras.
     It’s a clash between a mentality that belongs in the Middle Ages and another mentality that belongs in the 21st Century.
     It’s a clash between civilization and backwardness, between the civilized and the primitive, between barbarity and rationality.
     It’s a clash between freedom and oppression, between democracy and dictatorship.
     It’s a clash between human rights, on the one hand, and the violation of these rights on the other.
     It’s a clash between those who treat women like beasts and those who treat them as human beings.

What we seem today is not a clash of civilizations. Civilizations do not clash but compete.

Moderator: I understand from your words that what is happening today is the clash between the culture of the West and the backwardness and ignorance of the Muslims?

Wafa: Yes, that is what I mean.

Moderator: Who came up with the clash of nations. Was it not Samuel Huntington?
It was not Bin Laden. I would like to discuss this issue if you don’t mind.

Wafa: The Muslims were the ones who began using this expression
The Muslims were the ones who began this clash of civilizations.
The Prophet of Islam said
“ I was ordered to fight the people until they believe in Allah and his Messenger”
When the Muslims divided the people into Muslims and non-Muslims and called to fight the others until they believe what they themselves believe, they started this clash and began this war.

In order to stop this war, they must re-examine their Islamic books and curricula, which are full of calls for takfir and fighting the infidels.

My colleague has said that he never offends other people’s beliefs. What civilization on the face of this earth allows him to call other people names they did not choose for themselves? Once he calls them Ahl Al-Dhimma, another time he calls them “People of the Book.” and yet another time he compares them to apes and pigs, or he calls the Christians “those who incur Allah’s wrath”. Who told you they are People of the Book?

They are not the People of the Book, they are the people of many books.
All the useful scientific books you have today are theirs and the fruit of their free and creative thinking. What gives you the right to call them “those who incur Allah’s wrath”? or” those who have gone astray?” and then come here and say that your religion commands you to refrain from offending the belief of others?
I am not a Christian, a Muslim, or a Jew. I am a secular human being. I do not believe in the supernatural but I respect others right to believe in it.

Imam: Are you a heretic?
Wafa: You can say whatever you like. I am a secular human being who does no0t believe in the supernatural.


Imam: If you are a heretic there is no point in rebuking you since you have blasphemed against Islam, the Prophet, and the Koran.

Wafa: These are personal matters and don’t concern you. Brother, you can believe in stones as long as you don’t throw them at me. You are free to worship whoever you want, but other people’s beliefs are not your concern. Whether they believe in the Messiah is God, son of Mary, or that Satan is God, son of Mary. Let people hyave their beliefs.

The Jews have come from the tragedy (of the Holocaust) and forced the world to respect them with their knowledge, not with their terror: with their work, not their crying and yelling. Humanity owes most of the discoveries and science of the 19th and 20th Centuries to Jewish scientists.

15 million people scattered throughout the world united and won their rights through work and knowledge.

We have not seen one Jew blow himself up in a German restaurant.
We have not seen a single Jew destroy a church.
We have not seen a single Jew protest by killing people.

The Muslims have turned three Buddha statues into rubble.
We have not seen a single Buddhist burn down a Mosque, kill a Muslim or burn down an embassy.

Only Muslims defend their faith by burning down churches, and killing people and destroying embassies. This path will not yield any results

The Muslims must ask themselves what they can do for humankind before they demand that humankind respect them.

At this point the tape ended

"......A man looks in the mirror sees himself, then walks away and forgets what he has seen...."

Muslims- can they live with the rest of us ?-  Seems like Mohommad Ali managed OK except for the couple years we put him in jail-

Mr. Mike Tyson had a difficult time......ears and all...... :)