Personal choice and personal responsibility just don't seem to be in our vocabulary anymore. Like I stated in another post, "I made the personal choice to smoke".
I have three adult children and "they made the personal choice not to smoke". Two of them did smoke at one time but, "they made the personal choice to quit" years ago.
I do not see addictions being about will power. Thinking that an addict "could change if he wanted to" I feel- is a misunderstanding of the long term dynamic of addictive disorder.
Addicts have lost control is because - medicine says they have suffered permanent physical neurological changes based in their brains and nervous systems. The disorder manifests in long term obsessive-compulsive behaviors outside the realm of the addicts own control.
True the use of chemicals begins with chosen behavior- but if addiction develops, the problem has moved outside the realm of free choice. It has developed into a long term mental and physical neurological disorder- but of course I see this view does not go over well with the " Captain of my ship- master of my fate " crowd-
but of course I see this view does not go over well with the " Captain of my ship- master of my fate " crowd-
Opposed to the "If it feels good- do it" crowd. Or the " I have no control over my behavior - I have mommy and daddy issues" crowd.
I choose the captain of my ship crowd. I don't know about master of my fate, there are too many thing out of my control to make that claim. But the things I put into my body, I choose.
"Broad-minded is just another way of saying a fellow is too lazy to form an opinion."-Will Rogers-
I choose the captain of my ship crowd. I don't know about master of my fate, there are too many thing out of my control to make that claim. But the things I put into my body, I choose.
I dont think we are really talking about you or me- sitting here on a nice Sunday morning drinking coffee- reading the paper and typing away- We are talking about addiction-
'Feelings' involved in drug or alcohol ADDICTION are based in neurology. Addiction is based in physical dependency created by neurotransmitter balances that have gotten screwed up , and are then driven by millions of new living, functioning active neurological pathways which have been established to sustain the condition in the addicts brain.
The new neurological pathways are permanently established, and they will not just disappear. It is not simply mind over matter- a crime?
Should we then view sex addicts and people addicted to gambling an addiction that is based in physical dependency created by neurotransmitter balances that have gotten screwed up , and are then driven by millions of new living, functioning active neurological pathways which have been established to sustain the condition in the addicts brain?
I dont think we are really talking about you or me- sitting here on a nice Sunday morning drinking coffee- reading the paper and typing away- We are talking about addiction-
'Feelings' involved in drug or alcohol ADDICTION are based in neurology. Addiction is based in physical dependency created by neurotransmitter balances that have gotten screwed up , and are then driven by millions of new living, functioning active neurological pathways which have been established to sustain the condition in the addicts brain.
The new neurological pathways are permanently established, and they will not just disappear. It is not simply mind over matter- a crime?
I think we are confusing chemical dependancy with addiction. When ingesting an intoxicating chemical, whether alcohol, or heroin. Prior to taking them, most people in America are well aware of the risks and potential consequences of doing so. There's where the choice lies. If I choose to start using heroin, and I form a chemical dependancy to it. Not knowing how my body and mind are going to act under the control of this addiction, and I start robbing and stealing to feed my dependancy. I believe I should be held criminally responsible for the crimes I commit do to the addiction, because the initial choice to use a powerful opiate like heroin was made prior to dependancy.
Don't play with fire, because you just might get burned.
"Broad-minded is just another way of saying a fellow is too lazy to form an opinion."-Will Rogers-
I think we are confusing chemical dependancy with addiction. When ingesting an intoxicating chemical, whether alcohol, or heroin. Prior to taking them, most people in America are well aware of the risks and potential consequences of doing so. There's where the choice lies. If I choose to start using heroin, and I form a chemical dependancy to it. Not knowing how my body and mind are going to act under the control of this addiction, and I start robbing and stealing to feed my dependancy. I believe I should be held criminally responsible for the crimes I commit do to the addiction, because the initial choice to use a powerful opiate like heroin was made prior to dependancy.
Don't play with fire, because you just might get burned.
Im not confusing anything. The idea that an addictive impulse is the result of a nerve impulse - leave most people unsympathetic. Addicts and non addicts alike have a hard time believing that drug or alcohol use is anything more than a choice that is made in response to a habit. Deep down inside, most people believe that at it's root - the behavior is always a choice. They are very wrong.
Im not sure your understanding the physiology- The criminal behavior you reference is criminal- not the addiction.
Should we then view sex addicts and people addicted to gambling an addiction that is based in physical dependency created by neurotransmitter balances that have gotten screwed up , and are then driven by millions of new living, functioning active neurological pathways which have been established to sustain the condition in the addicts brain?
JoAnn- I have made an attempt at trying to understand the cause and effect of drug/chemical/alcohol addiction because of recovering family members -I have not looked at other compulsive behaviors . Ted Bundy did some very telling interviews with Dr. James Dobson that might give you some insight into sexual addiction-
Why is it if the brains of addicted people have neurological pathways formed from drugs some are able to kick the dependency after rehab and some don't.
Why is it if the brains of addicted people have neurological pathways formed from drugs some are able to kick the dependency after rehab and some don't.
Here is the anlogy I heard many years ago- Most people can not wiggle their ears. The wiggling of the ears is really nothing but flexing the muscles of the scalp above the ears- but the reason most people can not wiggle their ears is because they are not familiar with the neurological pathway which controls the muscle of the scalp above their ears.
However, every person in the world can be trained to wiggle their ears. Put electrodes to the muscles of the scalp above the ears causes the muscles to contract. Once the person feels where these muscles are, he finds that in fact he CAN wiggle his ears. He couldnt wiggle his ears before, was because he had not established the neurological pathway which enabled him to do so.
Before the electrode - there was no neurological pathway. After the electrode - the pathway has been established. The overwhelming craving for drugs or alcohol that endlessly defeats addicts is in reality a neurological impulse - and they have absolutely no control over the craving when it is triggered. All they know is that they want, they need, they feel they MUST have the drug. This "desire", this craving is not a free choice. This desire is an electro-chemical neurological brain impulse.
This is why pschiatry refers to PROGRAMS almost like reprograming your computer- a plan of action- But the answere to your question- Some get rewired and some dont-
Hey- I dont know jack- and Im not defending anyone or anything- I am at least am tying to understand - addicts need professional help- you nor I or normal people are just not equipped to deal with them-
Tell me if I understand your ear wiggling analogy. If you CHOOSE to put the electrode device on your head to establish pathways, you will then LEARN that behavior. And everybody's capable of learning that behavior. Everybody's a potential addict.
I'm so confused. There's physical addiction, psychological addiction, compulsive behavior, then you have your mania's like kleptomania, pyromania, you also have gambling addictions, sex addictions, internet addictions. There's even such a thing called hyper-religiosity or an addiction to religion. It's just a bunch of psycho babble labels. I'd rather call it what it is........The human condition.
"Broad-minded is just another way of saying a fellow is too lazy to form an opinion."-Will Rogers-
After reading this entire thread and even participating I will admit to a state of confusion also. While I may have pity for these people I guess my bottom line is why do we as a society have to continue to pay for their "addiction"? I don't mean just financially, but also in the form of muggings, robberies, murders, emotional strain on family/friends etc. to feed their addictions. When, where, and how does the cost of others mistakes and/or addiction stop costing me?
After reading this entire thread and even participating I will admit to a state of confusion also. While I may have pity for these people I guess my bottom line is why do we as a society have to continue to pay for their "addiction"? I don't mean just financially, but also in the form of muggings, robberies, murders, emotional strain on family/friends etc. to feed their addictions. When, where, and how does the cost of others mistakes and/or addiction stop costing me?
Cost ? Yes the financial burend is gigantic- so lets not be so myopic- is $ 40- $ 50,000 per year per offender in jail/prison the best use of the taxpayers money ? Your money -
I don't think it is the best use of taxpayer's money when the taxpayers are paying for other people's bad choices. In or out of jail/prison.
I believe that the taxpayers are already paying for "preventative" information at Federal, State and local levels of government, including our school systems as well.
The taxpayers are already paying to educate against addictive substances/behaviors. Should the taxpayer have to continue to pay even after the masses have been informed and some still "choose" an addictive path in life?
I shouldn't have to compare the lesser of two evils. Do I want to spend a lifetime of public benefits or do I want to spend to house in prison? That is not fair. I should not have to pay my hard earned $$$ in the first place. If they have commited violent crimes against law abiding and good citizens to feed their addiction then I would have to choose jail.
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