http://www.timesunion.com

Quoted Text

Redesign input sought
$14 million plan to remake Erie Boulevard to be discussed at meeting  
  
By PAUL NELSON, Staff writer
First published: Wednesday, November 28, 2007

SCHENECTADY -- The public will get to weigh in Thursday night on the city's $14 million plan to remake the gateway around downtown Erie Boulevard.
  
The work slated for Erie Boulevard, from Interstate 890 to Liberty Street, is expected to provide access to parking, create more green space, encourage private investment and redevelopment, and reflect Schenectady's rich history. Construction could start in 2009.

The federal government will cover 80 percent of the cost; the state, 15 percent, and the city, 5 percent.

The improvements "will transform Erie Boulevard from a sea of asphalt to a pedestrian-friendly technology, business-friendly technology corridor," Mayor Brian U. Stratton said in a statement.

Schenectady County Legislature Chairwoman Susan Savage said the project is critical to the success of redevelopment efforts and integral to the county's revival.

Thursday's gathering is planned for 6:30 to 8:30 p.m. in the atrium at Proctors Theatre, 432 State St. Consultants will join political leaders from the city and county to field questions about the design concept.

  

http://www.dailygazette.com

Quoted Text

SCHENECTADY
Erie Boulevard plan ready for public
BY KATHLEEN MOORE Gazette Reporter

   Erie Boulevard will be transformed from a “sea of asphalt” to a slower, greener street in the final design proposal to be unveiled today, Mayor Brian U. Stratton said.
   Clough Harbour and Associates will present its design at the Proctors Atrium from 6:30 p.m. to 8:30 p.m. Residents will be able to make comments about the design at a public meeting scheduled to begin at 7 p.m.
   Stratton described the street design as a “pedestrian-friendly, business-friendly technology corridor.” It will stretch from the Interstate 890 interchange to Liberty Street and will focus on making it easier to cross the busy road by bike or on foot.
   “In its current state, the excessive width of Erie Boulevard encourages high traffic speeds and makes it extremely difficult for pedestrians to cross,” Stratton said. “The preferred design concept transforms that additional width into green space and applies traffic calming measures.”
   He said businesses would be more likely to relocate to a prettier, greener boulevard. He wants technology companies to cluster there, creating a technology corridor.
   The Edison Exploratorium, a museum devoted to Schenectady’s great engineers, has already announced plans to move to Erie Boulevard. But officials want major businesses there as well.
   Schenectady County Legislature Chairwoman Susan Savage said “The Erie Boulevard project is critical to the success of our redevelopment efforts. It is key to the revival of Schenectady County.”
   Design and engineering work are slated to be done next year, with construction in 2009.
   The city would pay for only 5 percent of the $14 million project. The Federal Highway Administration and the state Department of Transportation have pledged $13.5 million, through the Capital District Transportation Commission.  

  
  
  

I guess we know the next place that the MonsterPlex will be taking our money to.

Quoted Text

The city would pay for only 5 percent of the $14 million project. The Federal Highway Administration and the state Department of Transportation have pledged $13.5 million, through the Capital District Transportation Commission.  

Where are the sewers/lights/sidewalks etc for Hamburg St......

Quoted Text

The city would pay for only 5 percent of the $14 million project. The Federal Highway Administration and the state Department of Transportation have pledged $13.5 million, through the Capital District Transportation Commission.  

Isn't it a nice play on words when they say it will be costing the city ONLY 5%? Well in case they haven't  noticed, the entire $14Mill is being paid by the sweat off the taxpayers brow. It is ALL taxpayer money no matter how you cut it. It is just coming out of different pieces of the taxpayers pie.

http://www.timesunion.com

Quoted Text

Roundabout, landscaping part of Erie Blvd. plans unveiled in Schenectady tonight  
  
By LAUREN STANFORTH, Staff writer
Thursday, November 29, 2007

SCHENECTADY - Erie Boulevard travelers would have to traverse a roundabout at South Ferry Street and weave through a new curved, treed landscape if the city moves forward with preliminary plans for the boulevard's $14 million makeover.
  
The public got its first glimpse at the plan at a community meeting Thursday night at Proctors' GE Theatre.

About 100 people watched a slide show on the big screen produced by the city's design consultants, Clough Harbour and Associates, which provided various drawings of what Erie Boulevard could look like between I-890 and Union Street.

Under the preliminary plan, the wide boulevard's six-lane width between I-890 and State Street would shrink to four lanes by placing large grassy and treed medians in between. A roundabout at Erie Boulevard's connection with South Ferry Street would allow motorists to turn around and go the opposite direction.

The street was once the Erie Canal, but was later paved and served as a quick route to and from General Electric, which can still be seen prominently at the boulevard's end at I-890. But with declining employment at GE and the elimination of parking in the road's middle, the boulevard's wide expanse has proved no longer necessary.

The project's goal is to slow down traffic and make the area more attractive and pedestrian-friendly. Crosswalks between the medians are also part of the preliminary design.

If funds allow, thinner medians would be placed on Erie Boulevard between Liberty and Union streets.

Ann Parillo, host of Schenectady Today on Channel 16, looked at the drawings before the meeting. She wondered if excavation will reveal interesting artifacts from the 19th century history of the canal. Clough Harbour consultants said later that they will be doing a study of the area's archeological significance before the project starts.

Richard DiCristofaro, who owns Wedgeway Barber Shop off Erie Boulevard, wondered if people would be irritated if traffic slows too much.

"Of course it looks gorgeous, an artist rendering looks good on paper," DiCristofaro said. "Whether it's practical or not remains to be seen."

The federal government will pay 80 percent of the project, the state 15 percent and the city 5 percent. Another public meeting will be held to show more final designs next spring.

The reconstruction work would likely stretch from 2009 to 2011.

This sounds ok...but what about the "holiday parade" that marches down this road to its conclusion?  How are you going to have cars driving down and marching bands marching when they're split by an island of trees right down the middle?

I don't like the idea of the round-a-bout. I don't even like those things. They cause  more accidents than not! Leave the road the way it is for heaven's sake. No more round-a-bouts!

http://www.gazette.com

Quoted Text

EDITORIALS
Good start on Erie Blvd. redesign

   In redesigning Erie Boulevard, Clough Harbour and Associates had a dream assignment: lots of money to play with, $14 million, and a road that could only be improved upon. The plan, unveiled Thursday night, could use a few improvements itself — which Clough Harbor is open to, and in fact are anticipated with the public participation process that the project sponsors are wisely following here. But as a starting point, it looks quite good.
   The two main goals were to make this great, barren expanse of asphalt, which looks like a landing strip and is used like a raceway, prettier and safer. The designers accomplished this by adding as much green as possible: a wide, raised grass median with plenty of trees the length of the street, as well as trees lining the sidewalks on either side.
   To slow traffic they have introduced gentle curves, like the one on State Street in front of Proctors, as well as a roundabout.
   It’s ironic that roundabouts are called “traffic calming” devices, because they sure do upset people. Unnecessarily in most cases, and particularly here. This one is more like a jog for those going straight, which most people will be doing. But it will also provide a safe way for drivers to turn around and get to the other side. And it will serve as a focal point, as well as a gateway to lower State Street, which the city and Metroplex want to redevelop, and the Stockade.
   The design is pedestrian-friendly. In addition to the sidewalks, there are five crosswalks between State Street and I-890, each one at a point where the road is narrowest and the median widest. What it is not, so far, is bike-friendly. That failing should be corrected. The right lane on both sides is wide enough to make a lane (preferably a slightly raised one, which is safer) for bicycles. And there needs to be a connection to the trail at the community college and Washington Avenue in the Stockade.
   A walking path up the median is something else that should be considered, as well as benches and more places for people to gather.
   Another problem is that access to retail businesses on the southeast side, where most of them are located, is difficult for cars headed south. One would have to go all the way around the I-890 circle, although it will also be possible to park on the west side and use one of two crosswalks. But it may be necessary to add a break in the median where cars can get across down there.
   These are relatively minor, remediable problems, though. The important thing is that the city now has a very attractive plan for a very important corridor.  

  
  
  

http://www.dailygazette.com

Quoted Text

Don’t forget State St. west of Erie Boulevard
VITO J. SCAFAMIERO
Schenectady
The writer is proprietor of Mr. James Beauty Salon.

   On Nov. 24 at 6:15 in the morning, I took a drive downtown State Street near Proctors. It looked beautiful with the Christmas decorations and all. However, when I crossed Erie Boulevard, all I saw was nothing — no lights — nothing. With the Robinson Building down, it looked like World War III.
   We have nice shops below Erie Boulevard on State Street, However, you’d never know. Even the parade goes down Erie Boulevard, not on State Street.

Quoted Text

The design is pedestrian-friendly. In addition to the sidewalks, there are five crosswalks between State Street and I-890, each one at a point where the road is narrowest and the median widest. What it is not, so far, is bike-friendly. That failing should be corrected. The right lane on both sides is wide enough to make a lane (preferably a slightly raised one, which is safer) for bicycles. And there needs to be a connection to the trail at the community college and Washington Avenue in the Stockade.  A walking path up the median is something else that should be considered, as well as benches and more places for people to gather.

My apologies for my misdirected prior posts on this topic.  I had assumed that we were discussing Erie Boulevard, a roadway that supports heavy vehicular traffic, particularly during morning and afternoon rush hours when people are going to and coming from work.  

Instead, it appears that the discussion about plans to "remake" Erie Boulevard centers around rendering it a park-like atmosphere where people can walk, bike, and shop, children can play, etc.  I NOW propose that there be swing sets, climbing bars, sand boxes, picnic tables, benches and bicycle racks located in the wide medians.

Five crosswalks between State Street and I-890?  Reducing the traffic lanes from 8 to 4?  Two roundabouts?  Sounds like justification for avoiding downtown Schenectady altogether.

I call on our elected "representatives" to act responsibility and refocus on the business of government.  You can begin with addressing the rampant criminal activity that plagues the City of Schenectady.  

http://www.dailygazette.com

Quoted Text

SCHENECTADY
City’s move to seize 2 sites to begin
Roundabout will replace buildings
BY MICHAEL LAMENDOLA Gazette Reporter

    The city hopes to begin next summer the legal process to take two buildings on Erie Boulevard — housing a gun shop and an adult business — and replace them with a roundabout as part of a $14 million streetscape project, officials said.
    Both the state and the federal government must approve a design document that specifies the project’s scope before legal and engineering work can begin, said City Engineer Bernard Sisson.
    “We hope to get state and federal approvals by the middle of next summer and then we can start eminent domain and final design,” he said.
    Clough Harbour and Associates is working on the design and wants to start the project in 2009, Sisson said.
    Under the $14 million draft design, the city will narrow Erie Boulevard, line it with trees, add medians and off-street parking on the Interstate 890 section and place a smaller median just beyond State Street.
    Another World and Special Arms & Munitions, adjacent to each other on the west side of Erie Boulevard, would be demolished and replaced by the roundabout.
    Gun shop owner Mark LaViolette said the city is “targeting the [adult] book store and we are collateral damage.” He said he fi rst learned the city wanted his building through a Nov. 30 article in The Daily Gazette.
    “A courteous letter or phone call would have been more appropriate than learning of it on the front page of The Daily Gazette,” LaViolette wrote in a certified letter to Mayor Brian U. Stratton.
    The letter went to Clough Harbour as part of the public comment portion of the project review, said Sharon Jordan, chief of staff for Stratton.
    Since the news article appeared, the gun shop has seen a dramatic decline in business, LaViolette said. “We’ve been here four years; it’s not seasonal,” he said. “Several customers are under the impression that we are being put out of business.”
    LaViolette and co-owner Mark Kali are also concerned that relocation will further hurt their business. They chose the Erie Boulevard site for its proximity to the Zone 5 Regional Law Enforcement Training Academy, several blocks down. The academy trains officers from throughout the region, and the officers form a large segment of the store’s customer base, he said.
    “A tremendous amount of money was put into the building to secure our inventory. Us being forced out of this location will have a financially negative impact on our future business,” LaViolette said.
    The gun shop is the only store in the Capital Region that sells machine guns, automatic rifles, assault weapons, tasers and other lethal hardware. Police departments are the only agencies in New York state allowed to purchase and possess automatic weapons.
    LaViolette estimated he has invested more than $100,000 alone just in security systems for the building, including a four-ton safe in which the automatic weapons are stored.
    The city reached a legal settlement with Another World’s owner, Rocco J. Palmer, in 2004 over his property should the city need it for a streetscape project. He agreed to “be reasonable” about the price and agree to relocation, city officials said.
    The city promised to help him find a new location in a zone where adult businesses are permitted, but agreed to let him open an adult bookstore on lower Broadway if no other location could be found. Palmer wanted to open a store at 1351 or 1354 Broadway.
    LaViolette said he has yet to hear from the city about a price for his building. Sisson said once the design is approved, the city will hire an independent real estate appraisal to examine the properties.
    The city must offer the owners a fair market price for their buildings. The money for both buildings is included in the $14 million project estimate, which is funded mostly through state and federal grants.

Seizing ones property no matter what the business may be sets a very bad precedent and opens the door for the city to seize any property it wants for it's pet projects.

Quoted Text

The city promised to help him find a new location in a zone where adult businesses are permitted, but agreed to let him open an adult bookstore on lower Broadway if no other location could be found. Palmer wanted to open a store at 1351 or 1354 Broadway.

Is this in the area where that new Dunkin Donuts was built?????

Quoted from senders

Quoted Text

The city promised to help him find a new location in a zone where adult businesses are permitted, but agreed to let him open an adult bookstore on lower Broadway if no other location could be found. Palmer wanted to open a store at 1351 or 1354 Broadway.

Is this in the area where that new Dunkin Donuts was built?????

...and the new DSS.

Yeah, my baby's daddy will have entertainment while I wait in line for the services......

The gun shop can really re-locate just about anywhere. If the gun shop is the only one in the capital area that sells such merchandise, it won't matter where they re-locate to. There is no other competition.

The adult store is another concern. And I don't really know if Broadway is zoned for an adult anything. I don't know how the city zones such businesses.  

why cant Another World go on Jay Street or closer to villa italia......it is after all---art---(in the eye of the beholder, I guess, someone once said)

maybe they could be involve in Art Night???? Let's class them up a little...give them a purpose higher than scum....oh, wait, better idea......right next door to planned parent hood would be much more appropriate......let them fight it out......although it should be lucrative for them both..... (I could go on here)

You're right the city deems an Adult anything goes into Industrial/light industrial----THAT IS HOW THE CRAPPY ADULT WORLD GOT ONTO THE 'OTHER SIDE OF THE TRACKS' ON THE ROTTERDAM LINE.......

Let's just encourage it now by putting it on the tracks at the bottom of Broadway Hill right next to the troubled Mont Pleasant neighborhood......

maybe all 8 or 10 officers would like to sleep in their squad cars there.....

WE REAP WHAT WE SOW.........

Quoted from senders

why cant Another World go on Jay Street or closer to villa italia......it is after all---art---(in the eye of the beholder, I guess, someone once said)

maybe they could be involve in Art Night???? Let's class them up a little...give them a purpose higher than scum....oh, wait, better idea......right next door to planned parent hood would be much more appropriate......let them fight it out......although it should be lucrative for them both..... (I could go on here)

Good point! But I'm sure that Villa Italia would want such a business near them. And the city would never do that to them. However, they will stick it to the residence or businesses that they could give two sh**s for!

http://www.dailygazette.com

Quoted Text

Erie Boulevard is fine just the way it is

    Re Dec. 18 Gazette article, “City’s move to seize 2 sites to begin”: I cannot believe that Schenectady is serious about spending millions of dollars to rehab Erie Boulevard.
    Is this going to be another State Street fiasco? First, we make the street narrower, then a few years later determine that we need some parking along the street (as we had before) and spend another million to again widen the street. Why do we need a roundabout halfway down the boulevard before we even approach the State Street intersection? If the purpose of the rehab is to benefit the proposed new YMCA/Golub building [at the former Big N site] then why not say so and rehab that area?
    Leave Erie Boulevard from I-890 to State Street alone, spend fewer millions, and [then] spruce up that area with some landscaping, road work and maybe a median?
    I have never noticed any traffic problems along lower Erie Boulevard. The wide lanes now allow traffic to move along quickly and at the same time allow parking for the businesses located there.
    If the purpose of the rehab is to beautify the entrance to Schenectady from I-890, then clean up that area, do some landscaping, etc. and don’t make Erie Boulevard a much-narrower road and add a confusing, ill-advised roundabout.
    FRANK J. LONGO
    Rotterdam

Actually, I say the only thing that needs to be changed in this area is to re-designate and clarify the lanes coming from I-890 to Erie Boulevard and to not only clarify where thetraffic from the sde street coming from G.E. is supposed to go, but also maybe make it a sharper turn so that the traffic actually slows down.  And the lines there just make it look as if they have the right-of-way.

http://www.dailygazette.com

Quoted Text

Extra traffic lanes needed on Erie Blvd.

    I worked at GE in downtown Schenectady when the I-890 arterial was being built; it could have been better.
    But the thing that always puzzled me is why there are only two lanes coming out of GE and Edison Avenue when there is enough room for three and even four as you get on Erie Boulevard. The extra third and fourth lanes would have allowed for the large volume of cars going to Scotia/Glenville over the Western Gateway Bridge and reduced backup of cars heading up Erie Boulevard.
    Yes, there is westbound traffic that slows down the Scotia-bound traffi c but the extra lanes would reduce traffi c coming out of GE. The four lanes would use some of the parking space on the south side of Erie Boulevard, but there is very little needed at this point.
    I have never seen it done, but a single traffic light for westbound traffi c on Erie Boulevard that senses backup of Scotia-bound traffic, could be useful to those coming out of GE, as well as those heading to Erie Boulevard from the eastbound lane of I-890.
    All of this would be very cheap in comparison to a traffic circle.
    I always regret not speaking up about the arterial design when [it was] reviewed many years ago.
    GEORGE SCHMIDT III
    Niskayuna

http://www.dailygazette.com

Quoted Text

Ulterior motive in Erie Blvd. roundabout plan?

    I couldn’t agree more with Mr. [Frank J.] Longo’s Dec. 24 letter, “Erie Boulevard is fine just the way it is.” Why is the city of Schenectady and the state of New York putting money into putting a roundabout on Erie Boulevard?
    One might ask, “a roundabout to where?” I have traveled Erie Boulevard twice daily for more than 30 years and have never come across a backup of traffic at the site of the proposed roundabout. Is this really an attempt to eliminate the two businesses [Another World and Special Arms and Munitions] — which would need to be seized? It is absolute foolishness to spend money on something that doesn’t need money spent. Put that money to a better use. Renovate some of the empty buildings on Erie Boulevard, but don’t spend money on a roundabout to nowhere.
    JUDITH PECK
    Rotterdam

It makes folks drive other routes and will slow down the downtown traffic,,,there by making a nicer/easier walk for the students at SCCC music program when they have to walk downtown for their classes......

Quoted from senders

It makes folks drive other routes and will slow down the downtown traffic,,,there by making a nicer/easier walk for the students at SCCC music program when they have to walk downtown for their classes......

But it's not even along the main route.  If they moved it to the State Street / Erie Boulevard corner, then I would agree.

Quoted from Kevin March

But it's not even along the main route.  If they moved it to the State Street / Erie Boulevard corner, then I would agree.

this time I will interpret...I think senders meant that tongue in check! I think!

Quoted from bumblethru

this time I will interpret...I think senders meant that tongue in check! I think!

Yeah, well, I guess I was trying to give the Schenectady City Council some credit for once, howeveer futile the idea is.

http://www.dailygazette.com

Quoted Text

Narrowing Erie Blvd. will kill business in downtown Sch’dy

    Being in downtown Schenectady since 1941, we have witnessed downtown in its heyday, its decline and its many attempts at rebirth. These last few years have seen a rapid growth, and we are thrilled with the many new restaurants and businesses that have come downtown.
    Unfortunately, the proposed redesign of Erie Boulevard would be a step backward. Erie Boulevard needs to be cleaned up, but this project is a waste of taxpayer dollars. We do not need a roundabout that serves only to put more businesses out by limiting the flow of traffi c.
    Although we may not all agree with the goods they sell, Another World brings business into the city, collects sales tax and pays its property taxes. Honestly, until our local planners made a big deal about this store, I never knew what it sold. In attempt to wage war against this business, our planners will be again spending our tax dollars to narrow the streets in downtown and make Erie Boulevard as non-functional a drive as State Street has become. (Try making a left onto Erie Boulevard from State Street after 5 p.m.) If a median is erected on Erie Boulevard, we might as well put a gas station on the corner because the traffi c bottleneck will drain gas tanks. The fun will truly begin when Price Chopper opens its new offices on Nott Street.
    Let’s look back to when downtown was happening. State Street was a six-lane road, with parking on each side! Today, when every household has up to three cars in their driveway, we are making it even more difficult for folks and their families to drive downtown by limiting traffic to one lane. I field calls every day from our customers requesting a route to our store that skips State Street all together. I can’t even being to imagine what it will be like when Erie Boulevard becomes two lanes.
    City planners need to start thinking about function, and not merely aesthetics. Wider sidewalks are great, but if traffi c cannot flow downtown, you will continue to find those sidewalks empty. Years ago, we had narrower sidewalks, filled with the bustle of a thriving downtown — why? Because you could actually drive downtown and park your car. What a concept,
    If you make it so difficult to get to a business, folks will continue to do what they have for years; going to the mall, where parking is abundant and you can get there via expressway.
    NORMAN AND LINDA TOLOKONSKY
    Schenectady
The writers are proprietors of Rudnick’s.

http://www.dailygazette.com

Quoted Text

Erie Boulevard plan will be bad for business downtown

    The goals for improving Erie Boulevard, as stated by the Capital District Transportation Planning Committee, are a more drivable, business- and pedestrianfriendly gateway into downtown, and to stimulate future business growth in our community.
    Yes, it’s pedestrian-friendly. The plan expands the already wide and little used sidewalks. The artist’s concept looks like a new park in the center of town [Nov. 30 Gazette]. It appears there is such emphasis on pedestrians and ambience that the other goals of being business-friendly, and to stimulate future business growth, are totally lost!
    No, it’s not more drivable! How do you curve and drastically reduce the size of this busy traffic artery and make it more drivable? Why do we need a traffic circle when the side branches serve only a small side street and a private parking lot? How do employees and customers get to the envisioned future business growth with a much smaller road?
    Most important, where do the business customers park? There isn’t enough parking now, and the plan appears to reduce parking. The pedestrians, employees and customers for these growing businesses are not going to drop out of the sky. They need to park, and the plan is totally dysfunctional without providing more parking.
    Some suggestions: Remove some of the least desirable buildings to make parking lots; expand on-street parking rather than sidewalks and green space; build an access road along the railroad tracks all the way from GE to the old Wallace Armer to connect existing parking, and make parking of the unused green space behind several of the buildings.
    My family and I have been active in downtown business for 70 years, including service on the Chamber of Commerce transportation committee. The plan, in its present form, will not encourage business development. Reduced parking will cause businesses to fail. Reduced traffi c flow may even crimp the growth on State Street. There is a huge gap between the plan design and the stated goals.
    CARL F. LISS
    Schenectady The writer is president of Carl Liss Appliances Inc .

http://www.dailygazette.com

Quoted Text

A few ways to deal with Sch’dy’s Erie Boulevard

    Re the April 7 letter “Erie Boulevard plan will be bad for business downtown,” by Carl F. Liss: I have been a Schenectady resident since 1925, and I remember the boulevard as it was back then and how it has changed. No more GE traffic from 4 p.m. to 1 a.m. as [workers] headed home.
    Anyway, this will be a short set of ideas that I have picked up in my travels. Try some of these things: I fi nd that parking is a huge problem. Disney World, Turning Stone Casino and England all have park-and-ride; the ride is provided by small, 20-plus passenger buses that pick up at loading stations every 20 minutes. Debit swipe cards are used in England, with senior and student rates.
    These lots are available now: the empty food market on Hamburg Street, the empty Trustco lot on Curry Road, or any empty store or shopping center. The small buses are also used in the large parking lots and in Atlantic City; they pick up passengers in many hotels and travel lodges.
    I’ve noticed while playing at the racino, the handy way they keep track of your play, and credit it with value points. Wow! What a concept. Remember Carl’s Gold Bond stamps? If you came home after shopping and didn’t have some stamps, mom would scalp you! That little book was kept for Christmas gifts, etc. So here’s where Schenectady might (with computers) issue swipe cards to get points. Every merchant could participate (almost like that Carl’s stamp).
    Traffic circles: If you can drive and have driving skills, these circles will save fuel and time. I hate waiting at empty intersections.
    EDWARD SAKACS
    Rotterdam

Quoted Text

These lots are available now: the empty food market on Hamburg Street, the empty Trustco lot on Curry Road, or any empty store or shopping center.

These are all privately owned lots. Would Mr Sakacs be ok if we parked in his driveway? The last thing we need are more county owned parking lots.

Quoted Text

Traffic circles: If you can drive and have driving skills, these circles will save fuel and time. I hate waiting at empty intersections.

I suggest he not come downtown on the weekends or after 5pm. It's full of empty intersections.

The point here is that a "circle" or "roundabout" is designed to control traffic at a 4 or 5 way intersection - NOT a 2 way intersection.