I'm curious for feedback on something.

Would you vote for someone in a completely new, independent party (I'm talking local level) based on a return to fundamental principles?  

No negative campaigning, no political or campaign contributions allowed. (I'm dead serious on that.)  

A straight-forward platform of comprehensive planning reform (that means an actually updated Comp Plan that serves to guide everything, like it's supposed to as well as overhaul of the Planning Commission, including even possible abolishment).

A platform that focuses on Quality of Life issues.  

A platform that advocates for a town-wide moratorium to temporarily limit development until the Comp Plan offers adequate protection.

A platform that seeks to build infrastructure where it is needed most to help promote the growth we want but still be able to retain the rural character of the community we desire.

I understand the question seems silly and of course, I'm being pretty vague on purpose.  Consider yourselves my exploratory committee.    I've been developing a detailed party plan and platform the last year.  I really never thought I'd pursue it - it serves more like a personal blueprint for me to follow in the issues I address.  But I'm not happy with the slow progress on so many important issues.  I know certain things should happen faster and I'm unhappy enough to be inclined to try myself.

I've been told, by people who supposedly know, that what I envision can't be done.  I think it can.  I have a plan but I'm curious to know what you think of such an unorthodox approach?

I hope you are really serious about running for an office in this town as we all know that we need elected officials who not only recognise the problems that this town faces but also who will resolve those problems not just talk them to death and deliver nothing.

The Village of Delanson created their own parties to run on.  The wanted to get away from the Republican/Democrat junk and vote for people strictly on the issues.  If you wanted details, Mayor Sally Burns would be the one to speak with.  She could give you a couple of ideas.  As for not having negative campaigning?  You and the newly created party may not use dirty tactics, but that isn't going to stop your opponent.  I won't speak to the issues you mention that are specific to Rotterdam, it's not my town.  I have always heard that a Conservative or Independence could not be elected without the endorsement of a major party.  Would you seek the endorsement of a major party or just run on one line?  It's nice to hear you might be willing to step up to the plate.

I have been a registered Republican since I came of voting age.  It has never really influenced my local voting and to be truthful, my views don't match up well with any party anymore.  I just pull the levers for who I think are the best candidates for the issues at hand, pure and simple.

I don't believe in endorsements.  They have never, ever influenced my own voting and I never attributed any importance to seeking or obtaing them.  In fact, I prefer NOT to attract endorsements.  ( I said it was unorthodox   )

One party line.  The party I create.  It's already got a name and the associated things that go along with it but I'm not ready to disclose any of that at this point.  I studied the election law but would really like to speak to someone that could guide me (I was thinking any of the Schenectady candidates that recently tried it, especially Mary McClane who I think actually formed a party to get on the ballot?)  I need to know I've got it right so the major parties don't get me disqualified if I do pick up any momentum.

Probably the biggest reason I have not gotten involved is the negativity.  There was no way I could let some party chairman generate propaganda with my name on it dragging the other guy through the mud.  That's not my style which is why I need complete control of my own destiny by creating the new party line.  Whether or not that style is successful or not, I'd just leave up to the voters.  I could easily live with stealing the low vote tally from Jurzynski  

I too registered Republican when I was 18, I never held any stock in it either.  My decisions for candidates were never based on a party.  I have posted previously my feelings about the two party system.  I disagree with it, but I will also admit to being politically uneducated. I think it just another form of segregation.  To have the gall to tell someone their idea isn't welcome and won't be entertained because you are a Republican or Democrat is ludicrous.  The County leg right now is a perfect example, the Republicans are not provided with information to formulate a decision, they actually withhold the info from them.  They are not told of meetings just to assure they do not attend.  In fairness, it was probably the same way when the Republicans were the majority.  As Supervisor, I enjoy representing all the people in town, I could care less what party they belong to.  Read my post in the endorsements section,  while we agree on this one we are polar opposites on the minor party endorsements.  Another reason I enjoy them is I know the Republicans will give me the nod, doesn't matter if I'm an idiot or not as long as I'm electable,  but the minor party endorsements require some work and more of a challenge.

I read your other post and responded in that thread.

I always believed electablity was derived from the people not parties.  I know how naive and idealistic that sounds so let me try to explain.

I'm a door-knocker.  I meet people.  I listen to them and discuss the issues.  Hey, I don't claim to have all the answers, just maybe some of them.  Right now, parties and money do determine electability.  My approach aims to change that.  I have a strategy that I think can overcome the obstacles to reaching the voters with my message.  But I'm getting way ahead of myself...I have not decided I will run yet....but tell me again how it can't be done...every time I hear that it helps.     

Mike, maybe you could talk to Pat Zollinger about forming a new party. If you recall, she and Vince Riggi had a similar vision. If she can't answer all of your questions, maybe she can direct you to the people who can.

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Quoted from Michael:

Would you vote for someone in a completely new, independent party (I'm talking local level) based on a return to fundamental principles?  

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Quoted from Michael:
A platform that focuses on Quality of Life issues.

Michael,

I would certainly consider supporting a third party candidate if he/she represents my views on the important issues and if I felt that the candidate would have a chance at winning the election rather than simply playing the role of spoiler.

A few of your statements require elaboration for me to comment on my level of support.  "Fundamental principles" means different things to different people.  I would need to understand the candidate's views on what constitute fundamental principles and his/her positions on the issues.

Your statement of "A platform that focuses on Quality of Life issues" also requires elaboration.  As a social conservative, I am not in favor of using public revenues to support many of the entitlement programs that are
presently in place nor do I support using public revenues to fund non-profits (e.g., Proctor's Theatre) and private businesses (e.g., Clinton's Ditch, the Big House, etc.).  I don't believe the redistribution of wealth from private citizens to private businesses and non-profits is the role of government.  It is my view that those who support the arts (e.g., Proctors', NYC Ballet, etc.) should work to secure private funding (donations, pledges, etc.) and not look to the government for financial support.  

In summary, the description of your platform is, as you concede, "pretty vague".  I look forward, however, to hearing more of your views and encourage you to become involved in government.  We need more people who are willing to step up and take back our government from the many special interests that currently hold the control and power.

Michael,
From what you're saying here, I would fully stand behind you.  In fact, it seems that you already have some great ideas and have been thinking about this for some time.  What I think we need to do is get back to what is actually in some pieces of paper that most people have forgotten about.  Those pieces of paper would be little things like A) The Constitution of the United States of America, B) The Declaration of Independence, and maybe some other documents that have been pushed by the wayside.  

And if I may ask a question of anybody here.  Has anybody ever checked to see if the Constitution has ever taken a breath?  I know it sounds like an idiotic question, but there's so many people in the Democratic Party that say's the Constitution is a living, breathing document.  Seems to me it's basic ideals that were put down on paper for people to follow.  It was never meant to be interpreted for more than it states on the paper.

I would love to join a group that gets back to the original thoughts of these papers, maybe in a party such as it would be, maybe the Constitution Party.

Michael,  Don't take this the wrong way, I've been happily married for 30 years but I think you are the "other pea in my pod".  Politically speaking.(I know I'm going to regret typing that previous line. )  

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I always believed electablity was derived from the people not parties.  I know how naive and idealistic that sounds so let me try to explain.

I am constantly trying to "explain" myself.  I just want to be the Supervisor of my town, do the best I can to provide services and make a nice community for the residents.  I too am naive, I want the best person for the job, regardless of the party.  I talk to residents all of the time to get their views and ideas for the town.  That is the best part of my job.  I am lucky D'burg isn't the size of Rotterdam.

I don't think I said your idea can't be done.  I don't know enough about politics to know if it can or not.  I will tell you, however, I will vote for the person who I feel can be most effective at the job, and be accountable for their decisions.  I want to know that when I am ticked off about something I can call someone and more important they will listen and understand.

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Hey, I don't claim to have all the answers, just maybe some of them.

The day you think you have all the answers is the day you will stop learning anything new.  I have to tell people I don't have an answer for them frequently, I find out where to get the answer and get back to them.  Someone who thinks they have all the answers doesn't belong in an elected position.  They will be closed minded and too busy trying to prove his/her way is the only right path.  I really hope you decide to run.  

PS  Aren't you glad you asked for feedback on your idea?

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Quoted from Rene:

Someone who thinks they have all the answers doesn't belong in an elected position.  They will be closed minded and too busy trying to prove his/her way is the only right path.

Example:  Spitzer

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Quoted from Brad:

Example:  Spitzer

Another example: Savage

Thanks to everybody who's weighed in so far.  I hope some others will to.  I'll try to expand on some of my thinking to help prompt more discussion but will still be playing close to the vest at this early juncture.

I'll try to reach out to Pat and Vince and others for their advice in how best to accomplish my goal, JoAnn.

It's exactly that spoiler hurdle I've got to get over, Brad.  I'm not going to be in it to raise issues, I'm going to be in it to win.  If I don't think I can, I won't get in.  I'll have a much better gauge over the coming weeks.

You picked up correctly, Kevin, on what I meant about fundamental principles.  Reform efforts always seem to wind up floundering so what better way to get a fresh start than by starting over with the things that got us started to begin with?

Thanks for the encouragement, Rene.  I am glad I asked!  I guess I have some hard thinking ahead of me.

Sometimes it is easier to 'reform' an already existing party than it is to create a new one.

Name one instance.

Why try to change a dog's spots?  Reform from within is a giant job and certain to be a distraction to the work that needs to be done.  A new party offers a clear agenda without any baggage.

I probably should have said that it 'seems' easier to reform an existing party than it is to create a new one. Ross Perot, I believe, created the 'reform party'. And he had the bucks to back him up. And although he pulled about 8% of the votes, he lost. My personal feeling is, Perot had the smarts and the bucks but wanted to run his own show, and he fell short of a win. But when the election was over, it went back to the status quo.

There are many conservs out there who are biting at the bit to bring their party back to it's grass roots and are now trying to doing so. The dems and reps, locally, are in need of new leadership. Buchanan and Quail should go.  

My personal opinion is to jump into an already existing party and fight for change.   There are quite a few out there, from what I hear, that are willing to jump in with you. Or else just campaign to vote the bad guys out. The political reform idea has been going on since the early 1800's.  

You said that you like to hear the negative side as it just strengthens your ideas....I hoped I helped. Actually I say 'go for it'!

I absolutely like to hear the downside.  It's the only way to properly assess risk.  I thoroughly appreciate the comments you made.  I said somewhere else I don't claim to have all the answers.  The approach you mention is valid enough...I just don't think it's a fit with where my mind is right now.

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Why try to change a dog's spots?  Reform from within is a giant job and certain to be a distraction to the work that needs to be done.  A new party offers a clear agenda without any baggage.

Howard Dean's campaign in 2000 moved the democrat party more to the left than any other democrat in recent memory.  Even though he lost, Howard Dean became the head of the DNC, and with his successful grass roots style campaign, he forces all national democratic candidates from that point on to pander to those grass roots liberals he courted during his campaign.  

With the current weakness of the county Republican party, I believe it would be a much easier for you to redirect the party from within than to start a third party on your own.  If you can show that your message is a winner, like Dean did in 2000, and motivate a disenfranchised voting block to get out and vote for the party you represent, you will then be a voice heard in the republican party.  Remember republicans want to win also.  If your message can help accomplish that, they would be more than willing to have you on board.

Interesting point, Cicero and one I appreciate.  The counter-approach both you and bumblethru advocate is not lost on me.  I think my reluctance to go that route is rooted in my past experiences trying to work within the party structure.  One thing I know I couldn't tolerate and also know I'd never be able to control is the negative campaigning that gets done.  Like you said, they're happy to have you on board as long as you fall in step and can win.  They don't much care what they might have to do in order to win.

If I create a new party, the aim is to strip it down to some basic, immediate needs and solutions.  Too much time and effort is wasted on protecting party interests.  Why not focus on the residents for a change?

It all comes down to what you point out.  Can I show my message is a winner?  Doesn't matter what party I'm with.  Can I show my message is a winner?  I'm prepared to learn my message is not what people want if it comes down to that but I've got to feel I carried it to them as intended.

Michael, I too share your vision as I'm sure others do too. We can't forget that ALL political parties started with the same vision. But somehow, hunger for power and corruptness and self service and personal political agendas and special interest groups become the forefront. At this  point I believe or should I say I could only wish, that ALL politiccal parties would go back to their roots. What was their vision and passion for the representation of the people? Renew the spirit and pride of service.

I believe that even if another party was started, it would eventually become as the others. Even if it took decades. I also believe in party reform. Or changing the landscape of government one election at a time.

Intellectually I agree with Cicero on this, but emotionally I want you to go ahead with this and see where it goes.  The sad fact is it would seem the residents of Rotterdam could miss out on you serving them if you fail.  Cicero makes sense in that the Republican Party should appreciate your eagerness and welcome you with open arms.  As I go to different Republican functions it appears as though that is whats missing, eagerness and passion.  There is plenty of strategizing and posturing but the passion to serve ones community and the residents in it is not evident to me.  If the passion is there the winning will follow.......how silly and simplistic is that?

Paradoxically, my passion can sometimes be my own worst enemy.  

I've decided to flesh out my town views on a separate blog that I'm using as a learning tool for something else.  For anybody who cares, it's rotterdamny.blogspot.com

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Paradoxically, my passion can sometimes be my own worst enemy.

I feel your pain

4974.  

4930.

These are the two numbers I'll discuss in my next blog entry.  Anyone have an idea what they represent?

No clue here.

Looks like tallied votes from an election. (a close election!)

Where is my bumper sticker........

OK Michael I think we waited long enough.....what does it mean?  I checked your blog and the answer isn't there.

Quoted from Michael

4974.  

4930.

These are the two numbers I'll discuss in my next blog entry.  Anyone have an idea what they represent?

number of democrats to republicans in the town???

Or the amount of people it takes to solve the drainage problems in rotterdam???

And what will we win if we are right? A toaster?

MICHAEL, WHERE ARE YOU???

Maybe the 4974 got to him...

He better have a good reason for leaving us hangin' like this!

Bum, go check Michaels blog, the answer is there.  Michael, you will have your work cut out for you, and if or when you win you will realize what a small dog you truly are.  The answers to the woes of any town whether its Rotterdam or D'burg are always more easily answered on a local forum or in ones mind. I can attest to that.

No good reason at all...so toasters for everyone!  

Yes, they are vote totals but these were the two winners totals.  Impressive numbers too.  Mertz and Signore respectively in the Nov 2005 Town Board contest.  These are the numbers I've got to consider in any attempt I may decide to make.  

Calling me an underdog against these guys would be a gross overstatement.  I'd be more like whatever's under the dog.  

You seem to understand my dilemma and reluctance better than most, Rene.  So why do I feel myself being drawn into something I'd much rather avoid and actually have been successful at avoiding so far?

I'll likely lose.  If I won, it probably wouldn't matter.  So why bother?  I'm not saying the people doing it now are doing a horrible job or that I could do better...I'd just be doing some things differently because I think too much valuable time is disappearing.

So why?  I think it boils down to being able to look myself in the mirror and knowing that I at least tried.

I lived in D'burg 43 of my 48 years.  I was never involved in anything, Eight years ago was my first run for the Town Board.  I went into it totally blind and thought it would be fun and a way to make a difference in town.  I had no agenda and was not disgruntled about the way things were going.  Over the eight years it has truly grown on me in a way I never thought possible.  It's interesting that there are no schools for this stuff, only a course put on by the Association of Towns once a year.  I have been self employed all my life and it is humbling to be a part of a system that requires five approvals as well as the approval of an additional 5,900 residents.  No task is easy. I think I have managed to keep my principles and not become a patsy for special interest groups (although our totally volunteer emergency services hold a special place for me) or politics.  Even though the sex offender ordeal turned political it was, in my heart, an issue I was passionate about.  I never meant any disrespect to Mr. Kosiur, he is a good man but let politics rule his thought process.  The last 6 months of dealing with and observing the county leg, and the crappy politics of the last election have made me bitter.  Because of that, I am more of a loyalist to the Repbulican party then I was before.  I'm not saying the Republicans are perfect either and I have considered switching parties myself on many occasions.  Election season 2005, I was truly embarrassed to be a Republican.
Anyway, my point is if you go into it with the attitude you have people will see that.  The key is reaching enough people to have that attitude shine. If you aren't already, get out and start talking to the people now. "Campaign" all the time, not just at election time. I think people will appreciate that. I would like to think you can do it and perhaps you have the determination.  There are many people upset with their current situation and a fresh perspective would probably be welcome.  From what I can tell as an outsider, I would be concerned with the nasty politics in Rotterdam, it is clear candidates are not confronted with the issues, intelligent debate is non existent.  I was at the debate for Rotterdam Supervisor, Town Board, and Leg candidates and....well I will leave it at that.  It seems that when one can't run on the issues they resort to literally making stuff up on a personal level.  Be prepared for that.

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I'll likely lose.  If I won, it probably wouldn't matter.  So why bother?  I'm not saying the people doing it now are doing a horrible job or that I could do better...I'd just be doing some things differently because I think too much valuable time is disappearing.

If you win, it will matter.  We can ALL make a difference.  You have a long road ahead and I will enjoy watching your progress.  I would start down that path NOW. I know I'm naive but I need to believe the political party isn't going to matter, but if you shine as a person you will win.  GIVE ME A REASON TO BELIEVE, MICHAEL.

Michael, If you do decide to run, and you're starting a new party, then let me tell you, I will not only back you, but I would also be willing to be running right beside you.  The people in your neighborhood have seen just about othing over many years of (rightful) complaining.  It is about time that something gets done.  

Also, I am so surprised with how easy it is to get something re-zoned in this town as it is.  The zoning was set up a specific way for specific reasons.  I don't think this town is a "bedroom community" and we don't need a bunch of Multiple Family Residential Housing, which just sandwiches people closer together, as it is in the city.  If you have single family residences, you don't have absentee landlords, you have owners who live on the land they bought and feel responsible for it, as they need to see it each and every day they walk out their front door.  It's also easier to find them when they are needed.

There are many things that are needed in this town, and while I agree with some of the ideals of the people that are currently on the board, there is a need for a change in some of