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senders
July 26, 2007, 9:32pm Report to Moderator

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CAPE CANAVERAL, Florida (AP) -- Astronauts were allowed to fly after flight surgeons and other astronauts warned they were so drunk they posed a flight-safety risk on at least two occasions, an aviation weekly reported Thursday.


An independent panel reportedly found that flight surgeons allowed intoxicated astronauts to fly on space shuttle.

It cited a special panel studying astronaut health, which found "heavy use of alcohol" before launch that was within the standard 12-hour "bottle-to-throttle" rule, according to Aviation Week & Space Technology. It reported the finding on its Web site.

A NASA official confirmed the health report contains claims of alcohol use by astronauts before launch, but said the information is based on anonymous interviews and is unsubstantiated. The official didn't want to be named because NASA plans a news conference Friday to discuss the panel's findings.

The panel was created following the arrest in February of former space shuttle flier Lisa Nowak, who was implicated in a love triangle.

NASA's space operations chief, Bill Gerstenmaier, said Thursday it would be inappropriate for him to discuss the matter before the report is released on Friday.

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Asked if he had ever personally had to deal with a safety issue involving an inebriated astronaut in space, Gerstenmaier replied: "The obvious answer is no. I've never had any instances of that."

"There's not been a disciplinary action or anything I've been involved with regarding this type of activity," he said.

In Washington, the chairman of the House Science and Technology committee said he hadn't seen the report, "but if the reports of drunken astronauts being allowed to fly prove to be true, I think the agency will have a lot of explaining to do."

"That's not the 'right stuff' as far as I'm concerned," said Bart Gordon, D-Tennessee.

The Aviation Week report doesn't make clear when the alleged incidents occurred, nor does it say whether the intoxication involved crew members who have no role in flying the shuttle or whether it was the pilot and commander.

NASA plans to release findings of a pair of reviews -- one by the outside committee and the other by an internal panel -- into astronauts' health Friday.

The independent panel's NASA consultant and its eight members, which include Air Force experts in aerospace medicine and clinical psychiatry, did not immediately return phone messages or e-mails from the Associated Press Thursday afternoon.

Aviation Week said the report citing drunkenness does not deal directly with Nowak or mention any other astronaut by name.

Nowak is accused of attacking the girlfriend of a fellow astronaut -- her romantic rival -- with pepper spray in a parking lot at Orlando International Airport. Fired by NASA in March, she has pleaded not guilty to charges of attempted kidnapping, battery and burglary with assault. E-mail to a friend


They have a 12 hour window---'bottle to throttle'.............

You bet I would be skunked before being blasted out of our atmosphere to somewhere there was no oxygen.......with how many gallons of flamable fuel strapped to my a#$.......

And are they actually flying it or is NASA control......control must worry about the drunks pushing the 'RED BUTTON' in the middle of take-off.....


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Shadow
July 26, 2007, 11:02pm Report to Moderator
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I agree I'd never climb into a rocket headed for space unless I was in a mild coma and oblivious to what was going on around me.
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bumblethru
July 26, 2007, 11:13pm Report to Moderator

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My my....first we have a female astronaut who wants to kill the wife of a male astronaut whom she has the hots for and now we find that there are drunk astronauts at the controls of the space shuttle.

Ahhhhhh....sex, drugs and rock and roll........I guess it really wasn't a generational thing after all! And so the saga continues....BLAST OFF!!


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senders
July 26, 2007, 11:16pm Report to Moderator

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Now we want our kids to grow up to be Lindsay Lohan or Vick......forget being an astronaut,,,,,,,,,ain't that a kicker......


...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......

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http://www.cnn.com/TECH/space/9810/30/shuttle.01/#1

Now we know what John Glenn was talking about so many years ago...

Quoted Text
'Zero-G and I feel fine'
"It's beautiful up here," Glenn said in his first call back to Mission Control in Houston after Thursday's launch.

He also was quick to put to rest any fears about how his 77-year-old body would readapt to weightlessness in space.

"Zero-G and I feel fine," he said, repeating a phrase from his historic flight on February 20, 1962, when he became the first American to orbit the Earth.

"Let the record show that John has a smile on his face that goes from one ear to the other, and we haven't been able to remove it yet," said shuttle commander Curtis Brown Jr..

The crew also marked a milestone in a flight that's full of them -- the moment Glenn surpassed his previous flight time of four hours, 55 minutes and 23 seconds.

"I'm now doubled on my space time," Glenn exulted, "and building up every second."


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NASA shaken by sabotage, drinking claims  
  

By MARCIA DUNN, Associated Press
Friday, July 27, 2007

CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. -- America's space agency was shaken Thursday by two startling and unrelated reports: One involved claims that astronauts were drunk before flying. The other was news from NASA itself that a worker had sabotaged a computer set for delivery to the international space station.
  
It was just another jolt for an operation that has had a rocky year from the start, beginning with the arrest of an astronaut accused of attacking a rival in a love triangle.

"It's going to shake up the world, I'll tell you that," retired NASA executive Seymour Himmel said of the latest news. "There will be congressional hearings that you will not be able to avoid."

News of the two latest bombshells broke within just a few hours of each other Thursday afternoon.

Aviation Week & Space Technology reported on its Web site that a special panel studying astronaut health found that on two occasions, astronauts were allowed to fly after flight surgeons and other astronauts warned they were so drunk they posed a safety risk.

The independent panel also found "heavy use of alcohol" before launch -- within the standard 12-hour "bottle-to-throttle" rule, the magazine reported.

A NASA official confirmed the report contains such details, but said they were from anonymous interviews and not substantiated. The official asked that his name not be used because NASA will discuss the health report on Friday.

The Aviation Week story did not say how long ago the alleged incidents took place, nor did it say whether it involved pilots or other crew members.

At a news conference to discuss the upcoming space shuttle launch set for Aug. 7, NASA's space operations chief was asked repeatedly about the drunken astronaut report.

The manager, Bill Gerstenmaier, would only say that he had never seen an intoxicated astronaut before flight or been involved in any disciplinary action related to that.

But Gerstenmaier had more news. He revealed that an employee for a NASA subcontractor had cut the wires in a computer that was about to be loaded into the shuttle Endeavour for launch.

The subcontractor, which he wouldn't name, contacted NASA 1 1/2 weeks ago, as soon as it learned that another computer had been damaged deliberately, Gerstenmaier said. Had the contractor not discovered the problem, NASA would have uncovered it by testing the computer before launch, Gerstenmaier said. Safety was not an issue, he added.

He refused to speculate on the worker's motive. He also wouldn't say where the sabotage occurred. He said it did not happen in Florida and had nothing to do with an ongoing strike at the Kennedy Space Center by a machinists' union.

NASA hopes to fix the computer in time for launch next month. It's intended to be installed inside the space station to collect data from strain gauges on a major outside beam.

Former shuttle commander Eileen Collins was as stunned as anyone to learn of the astronaut alcohol claims in the upcoming health report.

"I'm anxious to hear more details because this is very out of character from anything I have ever experienced," she said.

Collins worries this will hurt the image of the astronauts, at least in the short term. "I hope people can really look at the good things astronauts do," she said.
Astronaut Jeffrey Williams, who spent six months on the space station last year, said he's never seen or heard of anything like this. As for the effect this may have on astronaut morale, especially so close to a shuttle flight, he said, "We're trained to deal with things so we deal with them without much emotion."
Himmel, who retired in 1981 as associate director for what is now Glenn Research Center in Cleveland, wasn't surprised to learn the information was anonymous.

"Let's face it. Astronauts are a bunch of brothers and sisters, OK, and they'll cover each other's backsides because they're part of the team," he said. "And who knows what the role of the particular ones was to be. If he was just to sit in the middle seat somewhere and just be a passenger, you kind of say, 'Well, gee, I hope he doesn't vomit on the way up.'"

The independent panel reviewing astronaut health and NASA's psychological screening process was created following the arrest in February of former space shuttle flier Lisa Nowak. None of the panel members returned phone calls or e-mails from The Associated Press.

Nowak is accused of attacking the girlfriend of a fellow astronaut -- her romantic rival -- with pepper spray in a parking lot at Orlando International Airport. Fired by NASA in March, she has pleaded not guilty to charges of attempted kidnapping, battery and burglary with assault.

The scandal was followed by a freak hailstorm that tore into a space shuttle on the launch pad that set back the year's flight schedule. Then there was a shooting at Johnson Space Center in Houston by an employee who ultimately killed himself.

Himmel questions whether any screening or rules could weed out astronauts like Nowak. "I have personal friends who are psychiatrists and they say, 'Look, we don't know what the hell goes on and you can't really evaluate somebody overnight,'" he said.

As for astronauts who might overindulge before flight, if they're former fighter or test pilots, "it's a pretty hard-living bunch and it's a very emotionally intense thing," Himmel said. He said an old NASA colleague who worked closely with test pilots once told him, "Some of these guys are damn near on a razor's edge when they fly and in their home lives.

"The thing is that no matter how hard anybody tries, or no matter what system you devise to preclude something, there's always somebody who will find a way to louse it up," Himmel said. "There's no perfect system."



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Shadow
July 27, 2007, 11:13am Report to Moderator
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Kind of makes you want to be an astronaut doesn't it.
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bumblethru
July 27, 2007, 5:12pm Report to Moderator

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I won't even fly in a plane. Never did and never will.

Just think...here you are in a giant metal tube, crowded with a few hundred people, with enough fuel on each side of ya to blow up the state of Rhode Island and yet if they give you peanuts and more leg room, they call that 'first class'. I DON'T THINK SO!

And before you are even in the air, there is the BS at the airport. NOPE...not for me!


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July 27, 2007, 5:45pm Report to Moderator
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The glide of a jet plane is 1 to 1 which means for every horizontal foot traveled you drop 1 vertical foot and that's a pretty fast drop. I'm amazed that those big jets can even get off the ground. I've flown on some of the biggest passenger jets made and at times the take-offs and landings can be a little nerve racking.
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July 27, 2007, 5:49pm Report to Moderator

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You betcha I'd be skunked.....leaving a mess for some poor person to clean after the plane/space shuttle landed.......


...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......

The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.


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bumblethru
July 27, 2007, 9:23pm Report to Moderator

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Funny thing, but I love to go to the Airport and watch the planes as they land and take off. It is rather breath taking and it is an awsome sight.  But the thought of getting on one of those big metal tubes....IT JUST AIN'T NATURAL!


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Quoted Text
Report: NASA may have let astronauts fly after drinking
BY MARCIA DUNN The Associated Press

   CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. — With all the risks of space flight, it’s hard to imagine NASA would allow a tipsy astronaut near a rocketship about to take off.
   But that’s what is suggested in a report Friday from an independent panel that chastizes the space agency for failing to heed warnings about astronauts drinking before a flight.
   The chairman of the panel, Air Force Col. Richard Bachmann Jr., cited two cases — involving a shuttle astronaut and an astronaut flying on a Russian spacecraft — in which heavy drinking worried flight doctors and other astronauts enough to speak up, but to no avail.
   Revelations in the report rocked the space agency with renewed concerns about whether NASA has fixed many of the problems that led to the demise of the space shuttle Columbia. A panel created after that disaster four years ago urged the agency to repair a flawed safety culture that squelched warnings from lower-level employees.
   Speaking by phone to a Washington news conference, Bachmann said the panel was told about multiple instances involving alcohol. He said the most detailed involved two astronauts but didn’t say when they occurred.
   In one case, a colleague warned that a shuttle astronaut had had too much to drink but only after the mission was delayed for mechanical reasons, Bachmann said. The astronaut then wanted to fl y a jet from Florida back home to Houston. Bachmann said he didn’t know the outcome of that incident.
   The second incident, he said, involved warnings of alcohol involving an astronaut flying on the Russians’ Soyuz spacecraft headed for the international space station.
   In such a situation, Russia would have the authority to overrule NASA if the U.S. space agency wanted to prevent the astronaut from flying. Whether NASA officials tried to intervene is unknown.
   Ellen Ochoa, an astronaut who heads flight crew operations for NASA, said drinking and toasts are common in Russia, even just seven hours before flight.
   Bachmann said it was not the panel’s mission to investigate allegations or verify them and that NASA would have to ferret out details.
   “There’s certainly no intent to impugn the entire astronaut corps,” Bachmann said. “We don’t have enough data to call it alcohol abuse. We have no way of knowing if these are the only two incidents that have ever occurred in the history of the astronaut corps or if they’re the tip of a very large iceberg.”
   The independent panel was created by NASA to assess its health screening after the high-profile arrest of astronaut Lisa Nowak in February after she drove across the country to confront a romantic rival.
   The drinking allegations were a new humiliation for the space agency. Headline writers in newspapers and on the Web had as much fun as they did with the arrest of Nowak.
   “Sauced in Space.” “NASA: Shaken and Stirred.” “Three-Martini Launch.” “Houston, we have a drinking problem.” The New York Post incorporated two giant bottles of Grey Goose vodka into a photo of the space shuttle.
   At Friday’s briefing, NASA said it was unaware of any astronauts being drunk before a flight. Deputy Administrator Shana Dale promised to pursue the truth behind the claims.
   Bachmann, an aerospace medical specialist with the Air Force, said his panel deliberately did not seek pertinent details about alcohol use, such as exactly when the drinking occurred. The overriding concern, he said, was that flight surgeons were ignored.
   NASA has long had a policy that prohibits any drinking in the 12 hours before an astronaut flies a training jet. The space agency said that policy has historically been applied to spaceflights, too. But as a result of the panel’s report, the rule will officially be applied to spaceflights, NASA said. An astronaut code of conduct also is in the works.
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NASA embarrassments show plenty still needs fi xing Analysis
BY MARCIA DUNN The Associated Press

   CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. — At NASA, once again, the problem is its culture — a habit of dismissing the concerns of knowledgeable underlings.
   Four years ago, it involved higher-ups ignoring engineers who feared possible catastrophic damage to the shuttle Columbia. The engineers were right.
   This time, it’s NASA doctors and even astronauts getting the brushoff when voicing worries that some astronauts have drunk too much alcohol before flying.
   “I think things have changed, but some things remain the same,” said Douglas Osheroff, a Nobel Prizewinning physicist who investigated the Columbia disaster in 2003.
   An independent health panel disclosed Friday that at least twice, astronauts were cleared to fly despite warnings from flight surgeons and other astronauts about their heavy drinking. One intoxicated astronaut flew into orbit on a Russian spacecraft; the other ended up with a shuttle launch delay for mechanical reasons but later tried to take off in a training jet while still under the influence.
   In both cases, the doctors and other astronauts were ignored by higher-ranking officials. Flight surgeons feel so disregarded in general that they told the panel that they are demoralized and less likely to report concerns of impaired performance.
   All that NASA’s leadership wants, several senior flight surgeons told the panel, is to hear that all medical systems are “go” for space flight operations. They do not want to hear doctors’ doubts about an astronaut’s fitness for duty or behavioral problems, the panel was told.
   That was the same perception low-level engineers had during Columbia’s final flight: Their bosses only wanted to hear positive news about the fuel-tank insulating foam that broke off and turned into deadly shrapnel that punctured Columbia’s wing. Seven astronauts died.
   “NASA has had a history of ignoring indications that something is wrong, and even though the odds were with NASA, they have lost,” Osheroff said, referring to recurring foam problems before Columbia’s doomed mission.
   It always seems to come down to schedule pressure, which contributed in large part to Columbia’s demise, Osheroff noted.
   “I think part of it is still this pressure to launch and launch on time,” he said. “I don’t know what it costs NASA to delay a launch. But there are two costs. One is a political cost and the other is an economic cost.”
   Besides tales of drunken astronauts, the health panel heard anecdotes about other risky behavior — unspecified in the report — that was well-known to their colleagues, who were too afraid to speak up for fear of ostracism.
   With no formal code of astronaut conduct in place and no official written ban on alcohol within 12 hours of a space launch — two things that are quickly changing — poor behavior was simply overlooked.
   That won’t be the case for NASA’s next shuttle launch, set for Aug. 7. The commander, Scott Kelly, and the crew’s lead flight surgeon have already been notifi ed of the space agency’s expectations for their behavior on launch day. They’ve also been urged to bring up any safety concerns.
   To further break down any communication barriers, NASA plans an anonymous survey of its astronauts and flight surgeons.
   “We want to make sure that there is an open culture here and people are empowered to raise any safety-related concerns,” said NASA’s deputy administrator, Shana Dale.
   As a sign of successful culture shift, NASA officials point to the flight readiness review conducted before every shuttle launch, where dissent is encouraged and anyone with a safety concern can speak up. That wasn’t the way it always was — the Columbia accident forced changes.
   “It’s troubling to realize that there are still folks who feel there is a problem” communicating concerns, said astronaut Ellen Ochoa, director of flight crew operations.
   As for overindulging in liquor, Osheroff finds it mind-boggling that NASA could have cleared intoxicated astronauts for flight.
   “Launch and re-entry are the two times when the astronauts have to really be sharp because that is when most of the danger is,” he said. “So the idea of being drunk when you’re going up — you might as well go up in a casket.”
   NASA is up against almost 50 years of tradition when it comes to astronaut hijinks. Ever since the seven original Mercury fliers were selected in 1959, the stereotype has been a cocky but competent pilot who works and lives hard — a flyboy.
   The panel assessing astronaut health was appointed earlier this year after the risky actions of another astronaut, Lisa Nowak, who is accused of attacking the girlfriend of a fellow astronaut with pepper spray. Nowak has pleaded not guilty to charges of attempted kidnapping, battery and burglary with assault.
   The panel — of eight medical experts with government ties — acknowledged that many of the cultural issues have been around since the beginning of the astronaut program and will be hard to fi x.
   “Cultural changes such as these will and must disrupt the status quo,” the panel concluded. “While cultural changes are the most difficult to achieve, they are also the most significant and pose the highest risk of human failure if not adequately addressed.”
   Osheroff notes that in the corporate world, complete culture change often comes only after enough new people are hired and the old guard is gone.
   At NASA, that could take a while.  



  
  
  

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"Zero G and I feel Fine!"


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'BUZZ LITE HEAD'.....that is  hysterical!


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I think this is what the State Liquor Authority should be tracking.......is there as NASA liquor authority??


...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......

The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.


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BIGK75
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Maybe NASA's moving into the Rensselaer Fire Department?


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NASA report due on alcohol, astronauts  
  
By SETH BORENSTEIN, Associated Press
Wednesday, August 29, 2007

WASHINGTON -- NASA is set to release results of an internal investigation into whether a couple of astronauts were drinking heavily just before launch, but no one expects new details to emerge.
  
In recent weeks, top NASA officials said they could find no proven instances of drunken astronauts about to fly. They said they had examined what happened before launches in the past decade. As of late Tuesday, officials were still confident that no big embarrassments would emerge in the report due out Wednesday.

In July, an independent panel said there were at least two unverified and unidentified instances of astronauts drinking heavily before a flight. The panel was formed to look at astronaut health issues because of the bizarre case of astronaut Lisa Nowak, who was arrested and charged with attempted kidnapping of a romantic rival.

The panel's 12-page report last month said: "Interviews with both flight surgeons and astronauts identified some episodes of heavy use of alcohol by astronauts in the immediate preflight period, which has led to safety concerns."

One instance involved a shuttle astronaut that a colleague claimed had had to much too drink; the colleague alerted others only after the launch was delayed because of mechanical instances.

The other involved an astronaut drinking alcohol before flying on a Russian Soyuz capsule to the international space station. Drinking, especially toasts, are common in the Russian space program.

In both cases -- in which no names were given -- the report said that flight surgeons and/or fellow astronauts raised safety worries with nearby officials in charge, yet "the individuals were still permitted to fly."

The panel didn't have the ability to investigate further, so NASA's safety chief, Bryan O'Connor, a former astronaut and shuttle accident investigator, was asked to investigate. O'Connor spent much of his time in Houston, where astronauts work, said NASA spokesman David Mould.

NASA administrator Michael Griffin this month pronounced pre-launch preparations for astronauts to be so visible that it is nearly impossible to sneak a drink.

"They would have to really want to drink and hide it really well," Griffin said before the launch of the shuttle Endeavour. He called the charges "uncredible."

Little has changed since then, Mould said Tuesday.


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NASA to consider
alcohol testing

   WASHINGTON — After fi nding no evidence of astronauts drinking before launching into space, NASA said Wednesday it is considering limited alcohol testing of its employees, including astronauts.
   An internal investigation recommended alcohol testing while at the same time clearing astronauts of much-publicized drinking allegations. In response, NASA Administrator Michael Griffin said he would come up with a policy for testing after a mishap or when there are suspicions of substance abuse. It would, he said, be further validation of a sober space agency.
   The review released Wednesday could not verify two drinking allegations described by an independent panel last month, and Griffi n said they just didn’t happen. The report did acknowledge the availability of alcohol in crew quarters, noting that non-flying astronauts made booze-buying runs for their quarantined colleagues.
   The 45-page report by NASA safety chief Bryan O’Connor, a former astronaut and shuttle accident investigator, was initiated after the July report on astronaut health by eight medical experts.
   “I was unable to verify any case in which an astronaut spacefl ight crewmember was impaired on launch day” or any case where a manager disregarded warnings from another NASA employee that an astronaut not fly, said O’Connor’s report.
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Who cares if they are/were drunk....we send tax $$ to the government all the time.....I would say it is essentially the same.....if you want to crash...go ahead....

If I had a rocket strapped to my butt....you bet I'd be snockered.....


...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......

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Quoted Text
Astronauts dispute drunkeness report
   CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. — This weekend as the seven astronauts relax before Tuesday’s blastoff into space, the beer will be cold and waiting at crew quarters at Kennedy Space Center.
   No one will monitor how much they drink, no breath tests given.
   “We’re all professionals,” says Scott Kelly, commander of the last space shuttle mission in August.
   While the outside world was aghast at a medical report a few months ago suggesting two cases of drunkenness just before launch, the men and women who fly NASA’s space shuttles are indignant.
   “It’s just such an absurd thing to think that someone would even do that,” said Kelly, a Navy commander. “I don’t have the words to describe how ridiculous this whole thing is.”
   He and others agree there’s no harm in having a beer a day or two out, and he did just that. During the three days before liftoff, the shuttle crew is in semi-isolation at dormstyle quarters or at the beach house where astronauts enjoy barbecues with their spouses.
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senders
October 20, 2007, 2:39pm Report to Moderator

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Who cares maybe they should move it to SanFrancisco under 'medical supervision'.....


...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......

The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.


STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS

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