Welcome, Guest.
Please login or register.
Ethanol, good or bad idea?
Rotterdam NY...the people's voice    Rotterdam's Virtual Internet Community     Chit Chat About Anything  ›  Ethanol, good or bad idea? Moderators: Admin
Users Browsing Forum
No Members and 1 Guests

Ethanol, good or bad idea?  This thread currently has 1,792 views. |
8 Pages 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Recommend Thread
bumblethru
July 10, 2007, 1:55pm Report to Moderator

Hero Member
Posts
5,144
Time Online
28 days 21 hours 26 minutes
I thought I would start a new thread specific for the use of ethanol.

The development and use of ethanol is clearly not the answer to foreign dependency on oil. It would surely raise the economic standards in this country to alarming rates. Think about it...what do we use corn for? Bread, milk, meat, eggs...it is endless. In this country we can barely afford ourselves now, with taxes, insurance and gas/oil prices. And now it will be corn and anything associated with it. Which is everything! The old 'supply and demand' will be the rule.

Not to mention the added cost for our auto industry to make the previsions for engines to preform as well as they do with gasoline. And will the foreign automakers, bow to our needs for ethanol running engines?

We need to watch this unfold very closely and see which direction our politicians are going in.


Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil,  
The Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off.  
We apologize for the inconvenience.
Logged Offline
Private Message
Tony
July 11, 2007, 8:15pm Report to Moderator
Jr. Member
Posts
129
Time Online
15 hours 43 minutes
I think that they are going too fast with this ethanol. There should be more research done first since it will hurt the economy in differently than the oil.
Logged Offline
E-mail Private Message Reply: 1 - 106
senders
July 11, 2007, 9:16pm Report to Moderator

Hero Member
Posts
4,922
Time Online
26 days 13 hours 10 minutes
Quoted from Tony
I think that they are going too fast with this ethanol. There should be more research done first since it will hurt the economy in differently than the oil.


You got that right....how about the government subsidizing horses with feed for 5 years per household, and of course depending on how many people need one....keep the buses for school but give all those workers a horse to get to work....if there are folks offened then give them a bike(change your own tires)........


...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......

The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.


STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS

Logged Offline
E-mail Private Message Reply: 2 - 106
Shadow
July 11, 2007, 10:47pm Report to Moderator
Hero Member
Posts
2,547
Time Online
50 days 10 hours 42 minutes
Ethanol isn't the cure all that they think it is. Using it as an additive will help but not burning all alcohol in the gas tank. Alcohol has less power than gas does therefore you'll burn more ethanol and get worse mileage than with gas. The answer may be hybrids if they can make them dependable.
Logged Offline
E-mail Private Message Reply: 3 - 106
BIGK75
July 11, 2007, 11:28pm Report to Moderator

Hero Member
Posts
1,582
Time Online
27 days 4 hours 41 minutes
Has anybody brought up that the production of ethanol actually puts more pollutants into the atmosphere than the production and use of gasoline?


Proud Rotterdam Resident
Proud Patriot
Proud Conservative Republican
Proud Christian
Logged Offline
E-mail Private Message Reply: 4 - 106
Admin
July 14, 2007, 8:28am Report to Moderator
Board Moderator
Posts
7,265
Time Online
60 days 8 hours 20 minutes
http://www.dailygazette.com
Quoted Text
SCHENECTADY
Corn-based ethanol push puts toll on dairy prices

BY JASON SUBIK Gazette Reporter

   Most pizza lovers are not in the habit of ordering corn as a topping, but corn is driving up the cost of every slice nonetheless.
   Fireside Pizzeria manager Eli Nahass said he’s been in the business of pizza for 29 years. He said this past year has seen the most rapid surge in cheese prices of his career.
   “It’s gone up and down before, but never like this,” he said. According to the U.S. Department of Agriculture, the local wholesale cheese price in June was $1.85 per pound, up more than 50 percent from last year, when it was $1.21 per pound.
   Nahass said he blames cheese costs on the federal government’s push for greater ethanol fuel production. Ethanol fuel in the United States is primarily made from corn, which is also the major source of dairy cattle feed. The USDA expects corn use for ethanol to double in 2007 over 2005 levels. More than 4 billion bushels — nearly a third of the total U.S. corn harvest — could be going toward ethanol production by 2009.
   “I would assume that greater use of corn for ethanol is increasing the costs for corn and grains and that raises costs for dairy farmers and that gets passed onto us,” Nahass said. “We basically just have to deal with it because you can’t keep raising prices [but] at some point down the line, [pizza] prices may have to be adjusted again.”
   Corn futures prices have been trading at the Chicago Mercantile Exchange at more than $3 a bushel the last several months, up from the $2 range this time last year. Paul Lichorat, the owner of Geppetto’s Restaurant, said he has been forced to spend more time at his restaurant as a full-time cook to mitigate rising overhead from increases in cheese and gasoline prices that have been eating away at his profit margins.
   “We’ve been just biting the bullet on this,” Lichorat said. “You don’t want to raise prices or mix [cheese] blends. People remember when you do that.”
   Milk prices also continue to rise. The federally regulated milk price per hundred weight for the Boston area, which includes the New York Capitol Region, is $24.16, up from $21.09 in June and $19.17 in May. USDA statistician Kathleen Kelly said part of the increase in dairy prices is because of slower growth in production. She said last year production levels rose at 5 or 6 percent some months, but have slowed to 1 to 2 percent in 2007 despite rising demand.
   “Cow feed is expensive in part because there is less corn available because of increased ethanol production, also regional concerns about growth hormones in milk have discouraged production,” she said.
   Kelly said consumer concerns about synthetic recombinant bovine growth hormone, which stimulates greater milk production, have led many farmers to stop using it. The push for purely organic milk production has roots in possible links between the synthetic growth hormone and obesity and cancer rates in people. There are also fewer dairy farmers, according the New York Farm Bureau, a lobbying organization for farmers, which estimates that between 2005 and 2006, New York lost 460 dairy farms, a 7.2 percent decline. Christopher Galen, National Milk Producers Federation vice president of communications, said both supply-side costs and increasing demand-side pressure have led to rising dairy prices.
   “A lot of [the increased prices] are because of the global bull market for milk,” he said.
   The NMPF estimates that U.S. export of dairy products has increased 75 percent in the last five years, to now account for 9.3 percent of total dairy production. Galen attributed the gains to Asian consumers westernizing their diets and a persistent drought in Australia, which has hurt agricultural production for that traditional supplier of dairy to Asia. He said normally, increased demand would stimulate greater production, but the cost of cow feed has taken away much of the gain for dairy farmers from higher prices.
   “We’ve got to have a more rational approach to renewable fuels than just focusing on corn-based ethanol,” Galen said.
   Galen said the NMPF, which lobbies Congress, favors more cellulosebased ethanol production to reduce demand for feed commodities like soy beans and corn. He said milk prices will likely taper off after August, according to the predictions made by dairy futures traders.
Logged
E-mail Private Message Reply: 5 - 106
bumblethru
July 14, 2007, 10:51am Report to Moderator

Hero Member
Posts
5,144
Time Online
28 days 21 hours 26 minutes
Now this is what we've been saying all along! We are not ready nor are we equiped to produce more ethanol. And unfortunatly, we know that and so do the Saudi's! Whether it be oil or ethanol...we're gonna be paying through the nose!


Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil,  
The Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off.  
We apologize for the inconvenience.
Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 6 - 106
senders
July 14, 2007, 5:38pm Report to Moderator

Hero Member
Posts
4,922
Time Online
26 days 13 hours 10 minutes
Quoted Text
Kelly said consumer concerns about synthetic recombinant bovine growth hormone, which stimulates greater milk production, have led many farmers to stop using it. The push for purely organic milk production has roots in possible links between the synthetic growth hormone and obesity and cancer rates in people.


Would you give the hormone(something like it,,,the human version) to breast feeding mother??? Essentially that is what milk from a cow is-----breast milk...only we call them teets.......


...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......

The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.


STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS

Logged Offline
E-mail Private Message Reply: 7 - 106
bumblethru
July 14, 2007, 10:10pm Report to Moderator

Hero Member
Posts
5,144
Time Online
28 days 21 hours 26 minutes
Many pediatricians are saying that these growth hormones are causing 'little girls' to 'develop sooner than they normally would. Now, I don't call that something I'd want to give my kids. And organic, can be just as bad. It's a buyer beware thing!


Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil,  
The Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off.  
We apologize for the inconvenience.
Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 8 - 106
BIGK75
July 15, 2007, 2:20am Report to Moderator

Hero Member
Posts
1,582
Time Online
27 days 4 hours 41 minutes
Maybe Mr. Nahass over at the Fireside Pizzeria should reinvest all the money he's making selling video crack (A.K.A. QuickDraw) into cheese.  Just roll it up.  My wife and I used to enjoy going there the couple times that we did years ago.  Think we went twice, looking to have a nice meal.  First time was great.  Second time, they had the video crack in every corner of the store and we decided that we wouldn't go back.  My wife couldn't stand it being there, and it was right in the corner of my eye where I just couldn't ignore it.  Too bad.  It was really good food and from what I remember, there were OK prices, but I don't have to worry about that anymore.


Proud Rotterdam Resident
Proud Patriot
Proud Conservative Republican
Proud Christian
Logged Offline
E-mail Private Message Reply: 9 - 106
senders
July 18, 2007, 11:07am Report to Moderator

Hero Member
Posts
4,922
Time Online
26 days 13 hours 10 minutes
That video crack pervades everywhere in NYS.....the taxpayers must be duped somehow.....we think we are getting something for our hard earned $$ being poured down the belly of "the beast"......yet we complain about our taxes.....BTW...where does all that 'extra' cash go??????


...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......

The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.


STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS

Logged Offline
E-mail Private Message Reply: 10 - 106
bumblethru
July 19, 2007, 9:02pm Report to Moderator

Hero Member
Posts
5,144
Time Online
28 days 21 hours 26 minutes
Gee...the government is so concerned about lack of farmers...well what the hell...they allow other countries to sell them to this country. The government outsourced our farmers!!!!


Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil,  
The Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off.  
We apologize for the inconvenience.
Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 11 - 106
Admin
July 22, 2007, 9:52am Report to Moderator
Board Moderator
Posts
7,265
Time Online
60 days 8 hours 20 minutes
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070720/lf_nm/brazil_cane_cutter_dc
Quoted Text
Ethanol boom transforms work in Brazil cane fields
By Inae Riveras

PRADOPOLIS, Brazil (Reuters) - Melquiades Soares, with a sixth grade education, became a cane cutter in Brazil's center-south at age 16, following in the footsteps of his mother, a 40 year veteran of Sao Paulo's cane fields.

Cane cutting, an exhausting job once done by slaves, has been among the only means for survival for young Brazilians with little education. But Soares' prospects changed a few years ago, when he was trained to operate a mechanized harvester.

"I get a little more money and am more comfortable now," said Soares, 35.

Experts say turnarounds like his are becoming more common, as demand for sugar cane from the booming ethanol industry is forcing Brazil's cane sector to abandon outdated practices.

World demand for ethanol as a fossil fuel substitute has brought the biggest expansion in Brazil's cane production since the beginning of its ethanol program in the 1970s.

With the boom in cane planting, environmental and health concerns have come into focus, pressuring the industry to stop the practice of burning cane fields to clear foliage and pests for manual cutting.

"I don't have a crystal ball but the reduction in manual cutting is the trend given the move toward mechanization," said Remigio Todeschini, president of Fundacentro, a Labor Ministry foundation that oversees working conditions.

UNEMPLOYMENT FEARS

The impact of mechanized harvesting on labor was a big obstacle to phasing out manual cutting, as it could lead to massive unemployment in certain regions. One machine can do the work of 87 cutters, according to Unica, the Sugar Cane Industry Union.

In the main center-south cane region, with about 85 percent of the national crop, 70 percent of the harvest remains manual. There are 260,000 cane cutters in the region, about 160,000 in Sao Paulo state alone.

Poor education complicates the problem. Workers spend only 4.2 years on average in the public education system, well below the national average. State governments are pushing for change.

In Sao Paulo, which concentrates more than 65 percent of the national cane crop, the government and mills signed an accord last month that will move up the end of cane burning by seven years to 2013 for flat areas, and by 14 years to 2017 for fields on hillsides.

NEW HOPE

The sector's growth could make the process smoother. The industry, which expects to receive investments of $12 billion by 2013 in new mills and expansions, has a growing need for workers in other areas.

"You have to always look at those two aspects when talking about cane cutters' prospects: the sector's growth and mechanization," Unica consultant Iza Barbosa said.

"It's not only cutting the cane and selling ethanol and sugar. There are many simple tasks that can be taken by cane cutters if they are properly trained," she added.

Barbosa said mills have started to see the scarcity of workers as a future threat, and in the last few years they have shown more interest in investing to train employees.

Unica estimates 300,000 jobs will be created in the next five years, ranging from truck drivers to managers.

"The new posts are always offered first to the mill's employees. They normally are the best prepared people to take them," said Carlos Rene do Amaral, human resources manager of Sao Martinho mill.

EXPERIENCED WORKERS NEEDED

Sao Martinho group was among the first to begin a regular training program, about 10 years ago, and since then has promoted about 250 cane cutters. Most now work as operators of agricultural machines and industrial equipment.

The need for experienced workers is even greater in frontier regions of Brazil's cane expansion. Amaral said the group, which is building a mill in Goias in central Brazil, took 20 employees from Sao Paulo to work there.

Although Soares' story is still an exception, it has fueled hopes for the future.

"I always tell my two boys to study, so they do not become cane cutters as I used to be. Undeniably, it's a hard job."

Still, from the air-conditioned cab where he spends eight hours a day, he worries about his mother.

"She continues working because her colleagues are like a family to her. But she was very glad when I stopped... working under the sun, rain, cold. She knows well how hard it is."
Logged
E-mail Private Message Reply: 12 - 106
Admin
August 12, 2007, 7:31am Report to Moderator
Board Moderator
Posts
7,265
Time Online
60 days 8 hours 20 minutes
http://www.dailygazette.com
Quoted Text
Farmers growing more corn, outpacing storage capacity
Trying to meet ethanol demand

BY SHELLY BANJO The Wall Street Journal

   NEVADA, Iowa — Farmers are up to their ears in corn and scrambling for places to store it.
   With demand for ethanol soaring, farmers around the country have planted more acres of corn this year than at any time since World War II. The U.S. Department of Agriculture predicts the fall harvest will yield 12 to 13 billion bushels of the grain, enough to fill 183,000 Olympic-sized swimming pools — a far greater quantity than currently available storage capacity.
   It’s a worrisome situation for farmers, who typically choose among selling their grain right away, paying elevators to store it or storing it in silos on their farms. Stashing it gives farmers more fl exibility to play the market to their advantage. Last year, some farmers who sold their grain early came to regret it as rising demand for ethanol pushed the price of corn from $2.25 or so a bushel to well past $3.
   But the cloud over the farmers has a silver lining for those in the storage business. Storage facilities have more business than they can handle, and manufacturers of silos and storage equipment are stepping up production.
   Silos are more than just cylindrical towers that hold grain. Walk-in doors, zinc-coated walls and axial fans and heaters are just some possible add-on features. In recent years, silos have increased up to seven times in size from the old standard of the 100,000-bushel bin to silos that can hold 700,000 bushels of grain. To keep up with the pace of growers, silos now require stirring machines to speed-dry the grain or sweep-away systems to quickly empty the bins. Silos can cost as much as $2 a bushel of capacity, with an expected 30-year life span.
   Since 2000, the U.S. Department of Agriculture has awarded farmers across the country $485 million in loans to build on-farm storage. But Roger Fray, executive vice president of the West Central Cooperative in Ralston, Iowa, says storage remains a problem. “There has been an industrywide need [for storage] since the 2004 crop, and we are trying to catch up,” he says.
DEMAND FOR SILOS
   A recent visit to the Heart of Iowa cooperative here in Nevada (the town pronounces it Nah-VAYDah), showed the catch-up in action. Nestled in the heart of corn country where eight-foot-tall corn stalks stretch along highways, the co-op began last month to unload five shiny semitrucks full of steel bin, roof and leg parts to build 700,000 additional bushels of much-needed storage space. The seven-location, 8.9-million-bushel operation serves 800 farmers and supplies 100 percent of the grain needed to fuel Lincolnway Energy, the neighboring ethanol plant.
   “With prices for concrete and steel rising, we are doing what we can afford right now . . . but we have plans of doubling the entire size of the cooperative,” says Scott Stabbe, Heart of Iowa grain division manager, while checking his computer every few minutes for flashing corn prices displayed by the Chicago Board of Trade. Story County, where Nevada is located, alone looks to produce 32 million bushels of corn and farmers predict a five-million bushel shortage in storage capacity.
   At Scafco Corp., a silo maker in Spokane, Wash., sales manager Dennis Queen says sales are up 20 percent in the past year. Brock Grain Systems in Milford, Ind., a subsidiary of Berkshire Hathaway Co., has added extra weekly shifts and is now running 24 hours a day, says district manager John Tuttle. Demand for silos is so high that months-long backlogs have developed. Farmer Sam Spellman of Woodward, Iowa, just witnessed the completion of a silo he ordered last December.
   His supplier, Menz Construction Co. in Perry, Iowa, doubled its production last year but stopped taking orders in December. John Copple, district sales manager for the agriculture/industrial division of Chief Industries in Grand Isle, Neb., tripled his work crews this year.
   “This business is either feast or famine,” he says. “In the past we could hardly give a grain bin away and now we have a 25 million bushel backlog.”
   Howard Shepard, program coordinator at the Iowa Grain Quality Initiative, says bin manufacturers as a whole are running about three years behind the demand. The companies that erect the silos are also in huge demand, and there aren’t enough workers to provide the labor needed.
   Farmers within 50 miles of ethanol facilities are particularly concerned. That’s because many ethanol plants want to buy corn directly from nearby farmers to guarantee necessary speed and quality. “Ethanol factories only hold about 10 days’ worth of corn but need enough corn to run 24 hours a day, every day,” says David Zimmerman, commodities manager at Lincolnway Energy.
   About 40 miles away from Lincolnway Energy, Dewayne Berg eagerly anticipates the completion of his new silo. Monitoring the progress of his bin builders, he wipes away “bees-knees” — what farmers call corn residue that falls from the tall bins like snow — from his face. “We realized it was a whole new ball game out there and we needed to keep up and add more storage. It’s a bit scary,” he says. The 122,000-bushel bin will cost Berg $80,000 to construct. But he predicts that even if a summer drought occurs, he’ll pay off the cost of the bin within two years.  



  
  
  

Logged
E-mail Private Message Reply: 13 - 106
bumblethru
August 12, 2007, 11:23pm Report to Moderator

Hero Member
Posts
5,144
Time Online
28 days 21 hours 26 minutes
Perhaps we can help them here in Rotterdam, and store some of their corn in the existing and newly proposed storage facility.

All kidding aside...we knew the push for corn would be a-comin' and here it is. And did you notice how it went from$2.25/bushel to over $3.00/bushel? I believe that this will be just the beginning folks!


Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil,  
The Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off.  
We apologize for the inconvenience.
Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 14 - 106
BIGK75
August 13, 2007, 12:33am Report to Moderator

Hero Member
Posts
1,582
Time Online
27 days 4 hours 41 minutes
Maybe we should all plant some corn and sell it right here to Price Chopper.


Proud Rotterdam Resident
Proud Patriot
Proud Conservative Republican
Proud Christian
Logged Offline
E-mail Private Message Reply: 15 - 106
Shadow
August 13, 2007, 11:05am Report to Moderator
Hero Member
Posts
2,547
Time Online
50 days 10 hours 42 minutes
The price of milk is going up due to the price of feed for the cows going up. And as Bumble said it's just the beginning.
Logged Offline
E-mail Private Message Reply: 16 - 106
senders
August 13, 2007, 11:40am Report to Moderator

Hero Member
Posts
4,922
Time Online
26 days 13 hours 10 minutes
Just like oil.......still no proof it's cleaner......just different....


...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......

The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.


STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS

Logged Offline
E-mail Private Message Reply: 17 - 106
bumblethru
August 13, 2007, 6:31pm Report to Moderator

Hero Member
Posts
5,144
Time Online
28 days 21 hours 26 minutes
There is never actual proof with anything. Proof comes with trial and error. It will be years before we really know the economic and environmental impact this ethanol will have on society. During this trial and error period just expect prices to rise considerably!


Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil,  
The Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off.  
We apologize for the inconvenience.
Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 18 - 106
Admin
October 22, 2007, 7:17am Report to Moderator
Board Moderator
Posts
7,265
Time Online
60 days 8 hours 20 minutes
Logged
E-mail Private Message Reply: 19 - 106
Sombody
October 22, 2007, 7:47am Report to Moderator

Sr. Member
Posts
375
Time Online
21 days 8 hours 43 minutes
E85- fuel is easily found in some cities such as Detroit.  - It is about  50 cents a gallon less than regulalr.
There are dozens of different cars that run on the stuff. FFV flexable fuel vehicles have been on the road almost 10 years. ( about 6 million of them).
Logged Offline
E-mail Private Message Reply: 20 - 106
senders
October 22, 2007, 10:03am Report to Moderator

Hero Member
Posts
4,922
Time Online
26 days 13 hours 10 minutes
It needs massive amounts of H2O to make a gallon of the stuff????.....can we learn a lesson from Las Vegas???? We are sheeple.....


...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......

The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.


STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS

Logged Offline
E-mail Private Message Reply: 21 - 106
Shadow
October 22, 2007, 10:11am Report to Moderator
Hero Member
Posts
2,547
Time Online
50 days 10 hours 42 minutes
I've used E85 fuel in my vehicle when traveling and the only thing I've found is the gas milage isn't as good as when using regular gas.
Logged Offline
E-mail Private Message Reply: 22 - 106
Sombody
October 23, 2007, 10:37pm Report to Moderator

Sr. Member
Posts
375
Time Online
21 days 8 hours 43 minutes
Fifteen years ago I owned a 1985 Rl Camino 5.0 V8 305.  I was having a rough time financially  working as a painter.

But I discovered that it would run fine on Laquer thinner, acetone, MEK, even denatured alcohol.  I t ran alittle rough on regular thinner.  I mean you could smell it sitting at a stop light.  Sure the solvents were more expensive but I was working Time and material

I drove it like this for 2 or 3 years- then sold it.  I know it still runs today-
Im am the only person I know of that has performed this experiment-
Logged Offline
E-mail Private Message Reply: 23 - 106
bumblethru
October 27, 2007, 12:19pm Report to Moderator

Hero Member
Posts
5,144
Time Online
28 days 21 hours 26 minutes
We will have to see theh outcome of the use of ethanol, but in my opinion, it will cost no less to not only drive a vehicle, but also to purchase goods. Corn is in everything! It will end up being a supply and demand thing. The only benefit, if you want to call it one, will be that we will control the economic backlash and not be held hostage to other countries. Especially now with the sanctions place on Iran. Iran is the second leading supplier of oil. We can surely expect oil to go over $100/barrel!


Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil,  
The Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off.  
We apologize for the inconvenience.
Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 24 - 106
Admin
December 1, 2007, 7:37am Report to Moderator
Board Moderator
Posts
7,265
Time Online
60 days 8 hours 20 minutes
http://www.dailygazette.com
Quoted Text
New ethanol plant is first in the Northeast
BY CAROLYN THOMPSON The Associated Press

   BUFFALO — The Northeast’s first ethanol plant has begun production of what has been strictly a Midwestern commodity.
   Western New York Energy began grinding corn this week at a new $90 million complex in Orleans County that is expected to produce 50 million gallons of the gasoline additive annually.
   The plant’s operators believe their location will give them an opening into an industry built on public demand for renewable fuels. Ethanol is blended with gasoline to increase octane and reduce emissions.
   “We are closer to the ultimate ethanol markets,” said Michael Sawyer, executive vice president of Western New York Energy. “Ethanol’s being consumed here on the East Coast, and the economics of moving ethanol are challenging. We do not have to move our ethanol as far to the ultimate market as the typical Midwestern plant.”
   Sawyer and his father, John Sawyer Jr., both from Geneseo in Livingston County, will employ about 50 people at the facility, which state leaders view as part of a strategy to reduce dependence on foreign energy. New York was the first Northeastern state to join the Governors Ethanol Coalition when then-Gov. George Pataki enlisted in 2005.
   Michael Sawyer said the company has not been deterred by recent drops in ethanol prices and oversupply fears that have led to a slowdown in new plant construction elsewhere.
   “We think the current supply-demand imbalance is really a shortterm phenomena, and we’re very bullish on the industry for long term,” he said.
   The facility will buy as much of the 20 million bushels of corn it will need annually from state farmers as it can, Sawyer said, and ship the rest in by train from the Midwest.
   “It’s another market for our corn, and when you have more markets, you tend to have a better price,” said Steven Van Voorhis, president of the New York Corn Growers Association.
   He said New York farmers have already begun devoting more acres to corn.
   Corn growers were paid about $2.50 a bushel at this time last year as low prices lingered from a record crop in 2004. New York farmers now can get close to $3.80 a bushel due largely to the ethanol demand.
   One other plant is under construction in New York, inside the former Miller Brewing Co. plant in Fulton, Oswego County, while other states outside the traditional Corn Belt, like Arizona and Texas, have also broken ground on facilities, according to the Renewable Fuels Association, the ethanol industry’s trade association.
   The U.S. ethanol industry produced 4.9 billion gallons in 2006 at 110 biorefineries in 19 states, according to the association.

JEN RYNDA/DEMOCRAT & CHRONICLE Tim Marcellus takes corn out of a Long Trucking’s truck at the Western New York Energy Plant in Medina on Wednesday.

Logged
E-mail Private Message Reply: 25 - 106
senders
December 2, 2007, 10:35am Report to Moderator

Hero Member
Posts
4,922
Time Online
26 days 13 hours 10 minutes
There goes the high fructose corn syrup.....


...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......

The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.


STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS

Logged Offline
E-mail Private Message Reply: 26 - 106
BIGK75
December 2, 2007, 1:23pm Report to Moderator

Hero Member
Posts
1,582
Time Online
27 days 4 hours 41 minutes
Quoted from senders
There goes the high fructose corn syrup.....


and the cow feed, and the price of every single thing that you use / buy that includes corn products and or fresh beef.


Proud Rotterdam Resident
Proud Patriot
Proud Conservative Republican
Proud Christian
Logged Offline
E-mail Private Message Reply: 27 - 106
Admin
December 18, 2007, 10:09am Report to Moderator
Board Moderator
Posts
7,265
Time Online
60 days 8 hours 20 minutes
http://www.dailygazette.com
Quoted Text
Corn boom threatens to expand ‘dead zone’Environmentalists worried about Gulf of Mexico waters
BY HENRY C. JACKSON The Associated Press

    JEFFERSON, Iowa — Because of rising demand for ethanol, American farmers are growing more corn than at any time since World War II. And sea life in the Gulf of Mexico is paying the price.
    The nation’s corn crop is fertilized with millions of pounds of nitrogen-based fertilizer. And when that nitrogen runs off fields in Corn Belt states, it makes its way to the Mississippi River and eventually pours into the Gulf, where it contributes to a growing “dead zone” — a 7,900-square-mile patch so depleted of oxygen that fish, crabs and shrimp suffocate.
    The dead zone was discovered in 1985 and has grown fairly steadily since then, forcing fishermen to venture farther and farther out to sea to find their catch. For decades, fertilizer has been considered the prime cause of the lifeless spot.
    With demand for corn booming, some researchers fear the dead zone will expand rapidly, with devastating consequences.
    “We might be coming close to a tipping point,” said Matt Rota, director of the water resources program for the New Orleansbased Gulf Restoration Network, an environmental group. “The ecosystem might change or collapse as opposed to being just impacted.”
    Environmentalists had hoped to cut nitrogen runoff by encouraging farmers to apply less fertilizer and establish buffers along waterways. But the demand for the corn-based fuel additive ethanol has driven up the price for the crop, which is selling for about $4 per bushel, up from a little more than $2 in 2002.
    That enticed American farmers — mostly in Iowa, Illinois, Minnesota, North Dakota and South Dakota — to plant more than 93 million acres of corn in 2007, the most since 1944. They substituted corn for other crops, or made use of land not previously in cultivation.
    Corn is more “leaky” than crops such as soybean and alfalfa — that is, it absorbs less nitrogen per acre. The prime reasons are the drainage systems used in corn fields and the timing of when the fertilizer is applied.
    The Environmental Protection Agency estimates that up to 210 million pounds of nitrogen fertilizer enter the Gulf of Mexico each year. Scientists had no immediate estimate for 2007, but said they expect the amount of fertilizer going into streams to increase with more acres of corn planted.
    “Corn agriculture practices release a lot of nitrogen,” said Donald Scavia, a University of Michigan professor who has studied corn fertilizer’s effect on the dead zone. “More corn equals more nitrogen pollution.”
    Farmers realize the connection between their crop and problems downstream, but with the price of corn soaring, it doesn’t make sense to grow anything else. And growing corn isn’t profitable without nitrogen-based fertilizer.
    “I think you have to try to be a good steward of the land,” said Jerry Peckumn, who farms corn and soybeans on about 2,000 acres he owns or leases near the Iowa community of Jefferson. “But on the other hand, you can’t ignore the price of corn.”
    Peckumn grows alfalfa and natural grass on the 220 or so acres he owns, but said he cannot afford to experiment on the land he rents.
    The dead zone typically begins in the spring and persists into the summer. Its size and location vary each year because of currents, weather and other factors, but it is generally near the mouth of the Mississippi.
    This year, it is the third-biggest on record. It was larger in 2002 and 2001, when it covered 8,500 and 8,006 square miles, respectively.
    Soil erosion, sewage and industrial pollution also contribute to the dead zone, but fertilizer is believed to be the chief factor.
    Fertilizer causes explosive growth of algae, which then dies and sinks to the bottom, where it sucks up oxygen as it decays. This creates a deep layer of oxygendepleted ocean where creatures either escape or die.
    Bottom-dwelling species such as crabs and oysters are most at risk, said Michelle Perez, an analyst with the Washington-based Environmental Working Group. “They struggle to survive,” Perez said. “They can’t swim away.”
    Crabbers complained at a meeting in Louisiana earlier this year that they pulled up bucket upon bucket of dead crabs.
    Rota warned that if the corn boom continues, the Gulf of Mexico could see an “ecological regime change.” The fear is that the zone will grow so big that most sea life won’t be able to escape it, leading to an even bigger die-off.

Logged
E-mail Private Message Reply: 28 - 106
Shadow
December 18, 2007, 10:58am Report to Moderator
Hero Member
Posts
2,547
Time Online
50 days 10 hours 42 minutes
Why aren't the green weenies complaining about the damage to the ocean due to increased corn production. I think that it's Newton's Law that states for every action there's an equal but opposite reaction and this could be one.
Logged Offline
E-mail Private Message Reply: 29 - 106
bumblethru
December 18, 2007, 2:18pm Report to Moderator

Hero Member
Posts
5,144
Time Online
28 days 21 hours 26 minutes
Oh Shadow, there will be plenty of adverse reactions with the progression of ethanol. And as far as the 'tree huggers', they apparently don't care about this adverse reaction, but God forbid, don't drill for oil in Alaska or any other of the tree huggers sacred grounds!


Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil,  
The Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off.  
We apologize for the inconvenience.
Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 30 - 106
Admin
December 25, 2007, 10:03am Report to Moderator
Board Moderator
Posts
7,265
Time Online
60 days 8 hours 20 minutes
http://www.dailygazette.com
Quoted Text
CAPITAL REGION
Ethanol arriving at local pumps
Trade out of Albany boosting availability of fuel blend in area

BY JASON SUBIK Gazette Reporter

    Thanks to easy access to corn-based ethanol from Logibio Albany Terminal at the port of Albany, the Capital Region is quickly becoming fueled with E10 blend.
    Stewart’s Shops President Gary Dake said converting gas pumps to E10 was costly but subsidies reducing the price of ethanol and an increase in local supply have made the transition worth it in the Capital Region.
    “We have to do this for pollution control down in some of the southern counties near New York City,” Dake said. “Now it’s become available in the Albany terminals and we’ve learned how to convert the tanks, so we’ve started to expand its use a little bit more.”
    E10 blend pumps have been spotted popping up at convenience stores throughout the Capital Region, including at some Cumberland Farms locations.
    Nathalie de Vos Burchart, the vice president of logistics for Houston-based ethanol trader BioUrja Trading, said ethanol trade out of Albany has increased since her company purchased the former Cibro Petroleum Products Albany terminal for $10.125 million at bankruptcy court auction in March and created Logibio Albany Terminal in July.
    “We barge ethanol out to New York harbor, to Boston, to Philadelphia, to pretty much the end-user terminals. We also truck it out to the local Albany market,” she said. “There’s several stations converting [to E10 ethanol] as we speak.”
    New York Association of Convenience Stores President James Calvin said selling E10 is becoming more popular among his member stores.
    “There is growing interest among ethanol blends among motor fuel retailers, but that is gradual rather than meteoric,” Calvin said. “I think there is increasing supply of ethanol, again gradual, and increasing interest on the part of the consumer.”
    Corn-based ethanol production, although controversial for its possible negative impact on coastal fi shing ‘dead zones’ created by nitrate fertilizer runoff, has steadily grown more popular in Washington D.C.
    The U.S. now produces 7 billion gallons of ethanol, all of it made from corn, thanks in large part to government mandates and subsidies included in the 2005 energy bill. Last week President Bush signed legislation mandating a sixfold increase in U.S. ethanol use to 36 billion gallons a year by 2022. Of that, 21 billion gallons will have to be from feedstock other than corn such as prairie grasses or wood chips.
    Mike Bombard, Stewart’s Shops Corp.’s gasoline manager, said 198 of the approximately 300 Stewart’s Shops stores have converted to offering 10 percent ethanol blends with all gas sold.
    “The vast majority of the marketplace has done this,” Bombard said. “Approximately 20 [of the E10-only Stewart’s Shops] are mandated. That’s in the southern tier.”
    Since 2004, the federal government has required gas sold in and around New York City to contain 10 percent ethanol to replace the gasoline additive MTBE, originally thought to be a pollution reducing oxygenate until it was shown to easily pollute large quantities of groundwater when spilled or leaked at gas stations.
    Ethanol raises the octane level in gas without polluting groundwater when spilled, although Ethanol refineries do produce more toxic emissions than MTBE refineries, according to the U.S. Department of Energy’s Energy Information Administration.
    Actually using corn-based ethanol for fuel, however, is thought to have a net zero impact on carbon dioxide emissions linked to global warming because corn plants absorb as much CO2 as burning the fuel emits Most able to burn E10 fuel with only a slightly negative impact on fuel economy. It’s also relatively cheap to obtain in the Capital Region.
    “Albany is a very large transportation hub for ethanol product, so we’re kind of tapping into local resources that are available,” Bombard said. “The port of Albany is one of the largest ports in the country for ethanol transportation.”
    Since July, CSX Corp. has increased ethanol transportation from the Midwest to Logibio Albany Terminal from 80-car trains to 102-car trains, for an approximate monthly average of 1,000 train cars carrying about 29 million gallons of ethanol, de Vos Burchart said.
    Corn-based ethanol can only be brought to market by trucks or rail car because pipeline technology cannot protect the fuel from being contaminated by water, according to the EIA.
    “The terminal is just generally growing in volume and activity, particularly on the ethanol side,” de Vos Burchart said.
    Logibio Albany Terminal officials call it “pace setting in the ethanol industry” because the port of Albany has no dock congestion and it only takes about a week for ethanol transporting cars to unload in Albany and return to production plants.
    De Vos Burchart said 25 percent of the terminal’s 2 million barrel storage capacity is dedicated to ethanol.
    “That’s what we’re concentrating on. That’s our background,” she said. “BioUrja Trading is a large ethanol trading company. Our lead trader was the U.S. buyer of ethanol for Exxon Mobil. A little over 10 percent of the U.S. ethanol volume, pretty much, went through his hands when he was at Exxon.”
    Dake said he hopes increased use of ethanol will have a positive impact on the region.
    “It should ultimately have a depressing effect on the price of the gasoline,” he said. “But that’s going to depend on the price of ethanol, which has been going up.”
Logged
E-mail Private Message Reply: 31 - 106
bumblethru
December 25, 2007, 11:04pm Report to Moderator

Hero Member
Posts
5,144
Time Online
28 days 21 hours 26 minutes
Quoted Text
“It should ultimately have a depressing effect on the price of the gasoline,” he said. “But that’s going to depend on the price of ethanol, which has been going up.”
....Interesting......


Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil,  
The Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off.  
We apologize for the inconvenience.