To clarify, this is a comparison that I will more clearly split up. but A) a pedofile going after a 3-4 year old is going to have as much problem convincing the child that it's ok
as a B)early 20's couple of ladies who decide to take out their punishment on an elderly lady ...
Is that more clear?
Oh yes, now I see what you were saying, while I was originally thinking it that a 20 year old could be just as convinced as a 4 year old to give in to the offenders sexual desires. My, did I goof, cuz you certainly don't lack in intelligence to think of something so stupid.
And my apologies.
But this is where it's obvious that these laws being proposed/passed are to provide heavier punishment upon the perps of the crimes seek out the most vulnerable in society - children, the mentally slow, and the elderly. Both the mental abilities and the physical abilities of these groups make it easier for criminals to commit crimes against them, and then probably get off scott free. Can you hear the defense attorney talking to an elderly victim who has dementia, or even just elderly forgetfulness. Half the time my mom doesn't know who the president is. Can you see it in court, the defense says, "now Mrs Smith, who is the president right now." And she responds, "um, Roosevelt, no Reagan no he's the governor..." "And Mrs Smith do you know whether the guy had blond hair or dark hair." "And she responds that she thinks it was blond or a light color, but the perp was a black person (not to stereotype, but highly unlikely to be a blond" Ya know what I mean?
And because they are defenseless, the criminals will go after them quicker. So I would say that the intention is to maybe make a criminal think twice (did I say that?) if they consider that if they are caught punishment will be more severe
And because they are defenseless, the criminals will go after them quicker. So I would say that the intention is to maybe make a criminal think twice (did I say that?) if they consider that if they are caught punishment will be more severe
I agree but it should be across the board---would you really think "gee, I'm glad they attacked me instead of grandma".....
Or...."I'm glad it was a college student and not granny/3year old"
we should all just pack some heat.....
violence is violence......sex offense(still in debate)
...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......
The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.
STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS
Okay so I guess we will put all women, children and seniors in the role of the most vulnerable. Which leaves only men to be the perps (as senders says). I mean let's face it, most females don't have the strength to fight off a male perp. And clearly not children or most seniors. So from what we are saying and hearing and discussing here is that everyone is a victim except the male.
Do you get what I'm saying? If we continue to make a new law for every specific victim in society, we'll have more laws on the books than the books can hold or a lawyer can remember. AGAIN...murder is murder, rape is rape, robbery is robbery!! Keep the bottom feeders of society locked up longer! I said it before and I will say it again....if a sex offender or any other criminal has a strong potential to re-offend, than what are they doing back out in society?
And, can they please stop calling them sex 'offenders'. THEY ARE CRIMINALS! Just like drug dealers, rapist and murders. The word sex 'offender' is just plain 'fluff'.
Those with the largest voter base and lobbying organization. The AARP is a very powerful organization. Further, as we have recently read, the baby boomers are aging. Pandering to seniors will result in votes.
Carl Strock THE VIEW FROM HERE How can anyone be so depraved? Carl Strock can be reached at 395-3085 or by e-mail at carlstrock@dailygazette.com.
Every once in a while a crime occurs that rises above — or I should say drops below — the usual level of shootings and robberies, and such was the crime reported the other day from Rotterdam in which two young women, each 21, beat up and robbed an 88-year-old lady whom they had apparently followed home from a shopping center. Elements of interest, as reported by the police: One of the alleged attackers was 8 months pregnant. The other alleged attacker had a newborn baby with her, which she left in a car while she carried out the attack, and a 17-month-old baby that she left home alone. They reportedly beat the lady with their fists even after she was down and even after they had grabbed her purse, to the extent that she was found in the proverbial pool of blood. They allegedly threw a cup of bleach in the lady’s face. With blood still on their clothes they allegedly betook themselves to a nearby shopping center to buy $400 worth of baby clothes on their victim’s credit card. Put it all together, and what kind of human beings do you have who just moments before were loose on the streets and loose in society? It puts me in mind of the attack on the pizza-delivery guy at Yates Village about seven years ago. Three teenagers lured this guy, an Afghan immigrant, to a vacant apartment in the complex and then beat him to death with a baseball bat even as he tried to hand his little bit of money over to them. Just for the thrill of it, apparently. Or the torture of the 4-year-old girl Xctasy Garcia last year by the girl’s mother’s boyfriend, who over the course of weeks burned the girl with cigarette ends, put bleach in her eyes and broke her arm and shoulder. Some crimes I accept as the predictable work of dirtbags, but some just put me in a state of wonder. I considered hieing myself down to the Schenectady County Jail and trying to interview the two young women in this latest case, but it occurred to me that I had nothing to ask them, or at least nothing I could realistically expect an answer to, my only real question being, how can anyone be so depraved? I did wonder how long they might expect to be in prison if they ultimately get convicted or plead guilty, and Schenectady County District Attorney Bob Carney had the answer to that. Yesterday, as he prepared to present the case to a grand jury, he told me the sentence could be as long as 25 years for the strong-arm robbery, apart from the credit-card theft, depending on whether the cup of bleach used in the attack was deemed a “dangerous instrument” under the law and also on the extent of the victim’s injuries, which initially seemed not to be severe. It can’t be too long as far as I’m concerned. As for whether racial bias fi gured into the crime — the alleged attackers were black, the victim white — Carney said he has seen no evidence of that, though he had not yet interviewed the victim when I talked to him. As for where the two young women got the 1998 Cadillac they were riding around in, Carney said my theory that they borrowed it from the welfare mother who used to be a stock character in President Reagan’s stump speeches was not correct. He said it belonged to the boyfriend of one of them. As for why they promptly went shopping with a stolen credit credit just a short hop from the scene of the crime, where the Rotterdam police could quickly find them, rather than drive a little farther away, my own limited experience with streetlevel criminals is that in addition to their moral shortcomings most of them are just plain dumb.
Indictments near in beating Attorney for one of the suspects confirms action is likely against the pair in attack on 88-year-old
By PAUL NELSON, Staff writer First published: Thursday, September 13, 2007
SCHENECTADY -- Two city residents charged in the weekend beating and robbery of an 88-year-old woman remained in jail Wednesday and will likely be indicted before their scheduled court appearance today, according to both of their lawyers. "It is my opinion that the DA (district attorney) will have presented the case to the grand jury and that an indictment will be voted against her," said Steven Kouray, who is representing Tiffany Tolliver. Kouray added that his client denies she took part in a "forcible robbery."
She and Dominique Lucas, both 21, are accused of targeting an elderly woman, and then attacking her outside her apartment and stealing her purse.
Both were sent back to the Schenectady County Jail on $50,000 bail on felony robbery charges after appearing in Rotterdam Municipal Court earlier this week.
Sven Paul is Tolliver's attorney. He confirmed Wednesday that his client is due in court today for a preliminary hearing and declined additional comments.
Schenectady County District Attorney Robert Carney said his office is continuing to investigate the incident, which occurred at about 7:30 p.m. Saturday.
"My expectation is that by this time tomorrow, the grand jury will have taken action," said Carney late Wednesday afternoon.
Authorities say the pair was casing Crosstown Plaza near Route 7 when they spied the elderly woman, who had been shopping at Ocean State Job Lot.
They allegedly tailed her for four miles to her Rotterdam apartment at Curry and Fort Hunter roads, punched her in the face and doused her eyes with bleach before snatching her purse. Even then, the two continued to beat her, police said.
The victim, whose name has not been released by authorities, was left bruised and bleeding outside her apartment Saturday night. She was treated and released from the hospital.
Police say a resident at Victoria Apartments discovered the injured woman after she saw the suspects' white Cadillac crash into a wall of brick pavers as they were driving away. Soon afterward, police found the unoccupied Cadillac in the Hannaford Plaza parking lot on Altamont Avenue in Schenectady.
Rotterdam police watched the car and apprehended one of the women after she got in and began to drive away, authorities said.
The other suspect was found leaving the A.J. Wright clothing store in the plaza, with about $450 in clothing allegedly purchased with the victim's credit card. Both suspects had blood on the clothes they were wearing, police said. Lucas is eight months pregnant, and the two also allegedly kept Tolliver's 2-week-old infant in the car during the attack.
Tolliver also allegedly left another child, a 17-month-old, home alone during the crime. Both of Tolliver's children were turned over to the state's Child Protective Services.
Police say a resident at Victoria Apartments discovered the injured woman after she saw the suspects' white Cadillac crash into a wall of brick pavers as they were driving away. Soon afterward, police found the unoccupied Cadillac in the Hannaford Plaza parking lot on Altamont Avenue in Schenectady.
Rotterdam police watched the car and apprehended one of the women after she got in and began to drive away, authorities said.
The other suspect was found leaving the A.J. Wright clothing store in the plaza, with about $450 in clothing allegedly purchased with the victim's credit card. Both suspects had blood on the clothes they were wearing, police said. Lucas is eight months pregnant, and the two also allegedly kept Tolliver's 2-week-old infant in the car during the attack.
Based on the evidence as reported above, the verdict is obvious. Eye witness report of the vehicle in the parking lot of the apartment complex, blood on the attackers' clothes, possession of items purchased with the stolen credit card ... Of course, they could plead that their actions resulted from abuse by others, unjust treatment by society, needs of their family that drove them to commit the crime, acts of racism, temporary insanity, etc. We need to watch this case as it progresses through the courts. The verdict and the sentence will speak volumes about the workings of our court system and the state of our society.
I agree Zim, these two have been using the court system to their advantage for a few years now and managing to stay out of jail while committing felonies.
Carl Strock THE VIEW FROM HERE How can anyone be so depraved?
As for whether racial bias fi gured into the crime — the alleged attackers were black, the victim white — Carney said he has seen no evidence of that, though he had not yet interviewed the victim when I talked to him.
I have yet to hear anybody utter the words "hate crime". Two black girls comitting a crime against a white elderly woman. I don't believe blacks commiting crimes against whites or any other race is considered a "hate crime" in our courts...Only the other way around.
Hate crime From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Hate crimes (also known as bias motivated crimes) occur when a perpetrator targets a victim because of his or her membership in a certain social group, usually defined by race, religion, sexual orientation, disability, ethnicity, nationality, age, gender, gender identity, or political affiliation.[1]
I don't know how accurate Wikipedia is.....but I know by watching the news, if two white women assulted and robbed a black woman, people would be talking "hate crime"
The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out for himself, without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane and intolerable, and so, if he is romantic, he tries to change it. And even if he is not romantic personally he is apt to spread discontent among those who are. ~ H.L. Mencken
You know, you're right, Cicero, we're just conditioned to think that this is the way it's supposed to happen. It's not a hate crime, it's whitey getting what (s)he deserves, finally.
Proud Rotterdam Resident Proud Patriot Proud Conservative Republican Proud Christian
You're right Cicero, if the prosecutor classifies this mugging a hate crime as well as very violent robbery/mugging it'll add a lot of years to their sentences when they're convicted.
TITLE Y HATE CRIMES ACT OF 2000 ARTICLE 485 HATE CRIMES
Section 485.00 Legislative findings.
485.05 Hate crimes. 485.10 Sentencing. § 485.00 Legislative findings. The legislature finds and determines as follows: criminal acts involv- ing violence, intimidation and destruction of property based upon bias and prejudice have become more prevalent in New York state in recent years. The intolerable truth is that in these crimes, commonly and justly referred to as "hate crimes", victims are intentionally selected, in whole or in part, because of their race, color, national origin, ancestry, gender, religion, religious practice, age, disability or sexu- al orientation. Hate crimes do more than threaten the safety and welfare of all citizens. They inflict on victims incalculable physical and emotional damage and tear at the very fabric of free society. Crimes motivated by invidious hatred toward particular groups not only harm individual victims but send a powerful message of intolerance and discrimination to all members of the group to which the victim belongs. Hate crimes can and do intimidate and disrupt entire communities and vitiate the civility that is essential to healthy democratic processes. In a democratic society, citizens cannot be required to approve of the beliefs and practices of others, but must never commit criminal acts on account of them. Current law does not adequately recognize the harm to public order and individual safety that hate crimes cause. Therefore, our laws must be strengthened to provide clear recognition of the gravi- ty of hate crimes and the compelling importance of preventing their recurrence. Accordingly, the legislature finds and declares that hate crimes should be prosecuted and punished with appropriate severity. § 485.05 Hate crimes.
5. "Age" means sixty years old or more. 6. "Disability" means a physical or mental impairment that substan- tially limits a major life activity.
I'm not a lawyer, but if I am reading this right, DA Carney has the right to charge these women with a hate crime if the allegations are true. Not on race but on age. Obviously there is a law already on the books that protect the elderly. I don't think we need the "Granny law"
Quoted Text
ROTTERDAM Elderly express shock about attack Residents considering extra precautions BY JUSTIN MASON Gazette Reporter The incident also caught the attention of state legislators on Monday. Sen. Hugh T. Farley, RNiskayuna, called on the state Assembly to pass “Granny’s Law,” a piece of legislation proposed in March that would classify an assault on an elderly person as a violent felony punishable by up to seven years in prison.
Obviously Mr. Farley was pandering to the news of the day.....You would think as a legislator he would know that there was already a law on the books that addresses this problem. But since we live in a slogan society, Mr. Farley needs to look like he's doing something about this problem, so he will introduce yet another layer of useless legislations coined "Granny's law". Maybe he can snag a few hundred more senior votes in the next election.
The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out for himself, without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane and intolerable, and so, if he is romantic, he tries to change it. And even if he is not romantic personally he is apt to spread discontent among those who are. ~ H.L. Mencken
It's easy to pin a hate crime on a white person. And you are correct Cicero. If it were reversed, Sharpton and Jackson would be on the next plane to the capital district. You would be seeing this played out on CNN and Fox news. But ya see, the blacks have been labled the 'victims of society' for so long, that I don't think it will ever be reversed. The word 'slavery' will always be the crutch for the black community, polticians and activists IF they choose to use it.
Unfortuantly, the politicians pander to ALL special interest groups and cultures. They pander to the black community, Latino's, Gay/lesbians, the elderly(AARP) and yes even the women libber's. (the Muslim community is the next up and comming vote getter) So there ain't no way that the white politician is going to propose a hate crime bill to protect the whites, elderly or not! Too many lost votes there.
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